Manchester If Only

[ainsworth74]

My vote goes to this scheme

It is truly a travesty that this scheme has yet to be built. I think such a scheme is vital to Hull's future success

 

[tbtc]

It is truly a travesty that this scheme has yet to be built. I think such a scheme is vital to Hull's future success

Hull will never be a truly international city until this is built, agreed

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Isn't pretending to be Tony Wilson a bit 1988?

 

[HSTEd]

I propose a Hull Shinkansen which would link in with the Transpennine Shinkansen and the East Coast Shinkansen.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there still not yet a high-quality train to and from the good city of Hull called "The Prescottian"?....

 

[spargazer]

Go and have a walk around the so-called "Northern Quarter", especially north of Piccadilly Gardens. You will see sights there which will give you the reason why Manchester will never become the "world-class city" that you make mention of.

"Quaint and with shades of bohemianism"...is another way of stating "slum in the city". The Oldham Road and Rochdale Road trunk routes northwards contain other areas that Manchester should be ashamed of showing to its residents and to visitors.

Mr Sidorczuk really, tut tut, there are some jolly good cheapo eateries there
but the south side around Oxford Rd also leaves a lot to be desired

 

[HSTEd]

Popolino's.... best Pizza in South Manchester....


There are some very pricey places in the Northern Quarter... I had a £4.50 pint of draught Rekorderlig once.... it was probably the best pint of cider I have ever had, but I am not sure it was worth £4.50.

 

[A0]

Is there still not yet a high-quality train to and from the good city of Hull called "The Prescottian"?....

Why on earth would there be when there's a perfectly good supply of Jaguar's for m'lud to use.......

Still liked the time Sarah Kennedy remarked on R2 after he'd been outed for having an affair that he could have another nickname which rhymed with 2 Jags......

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Mr Sidorczuk really, tut tut, there are some jolly good cheapo eateries there

I do not doubt this for a moment, but were we not discussing "a world-class city" some time back on this thread, to which the term "cheapo eateries" does not seem to strike a gastronomic chord..:cry:

Last week, I walked up Lever Street and passed through Stevenson Square, up to Great Ancoats Street and looking to the left, there was a view of the decrepit rear elevations of Oldham Street properties that is only a matter of minutes away from the city centre at Piccadilly.

 

[HSTEd]

Last week, I walked up Lever Street and passed through Stevenson Square, up to Great Ancoats Street and looking to the left, there was a view of the decrepit rear elevations of Oldham Street properties that is only a matter of minutes away from the city centre at Piccadilly.

Depending on how you define "city centre" I am pretty sure you could do this in any major city in the world....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Depending on how you define "city centre" I am pretty sure you could do this in any major city in the world....

The area which I have described is just a couple of minutes walk from Piccadilly, which is recognised as a fulcrum in Manchester city centre. That area is easily available to visitors to the city who wish to see the Northern Quarter, who then would view the sight that I so described in my posting.

 

[Chapeltom]

The area which I have described is just a couple of minutes walk from Piccadilly, which is recognised as a fulcrum in Manchester city centre. That area is easily available to visitors to the city who wish to see the Northern Quarter, who then would view the sight that I so described in my posting.

I agree about the Northern Quarter, it really is not worth seeing! I only go into that part of the City Centre to do pubs such as Bar Fringe, the Angel and the Port St Beer House! To say were talking streets leading off Piccadilly Gardens, it is embarrassing.

 

[HSTEd]

The area which I have described is just a couple of minutes walk from Piccadilly, which is recognised as a fulcrum in Manchester city centre. That area is easily available to visitors to the city who wish to see the Northern Quarter, who then would view the sight that I so described in my posting.

Those streets aren't really part of the "true" (by which I mean the expensive part) Northern Quarter though, that tends over more towards the flanks of the Arndale itself rather than more to the North East of Piccadilly Gardens.

Those areas are more like the curry mile, which although does not appear to be in the "best" of condition, probably do more business than any other place I have ever seen outside London. (Although frankly if you want a decent curry in Manchester you do not go on the Curry Mile).

 

[spargazer]

Those streets aren't really part of the "true" (by which I mean the expensive part) Northern Quarter though, that tends over more towards the flanks of the Arndale itself rather than more to the North East of Piccadilly Gardens.

Those areas are more like the curry mile, which although does not appear to be in the "best" of condition, probably do more business than any other place I have ever seen outside London. (Although frankly if you want a decent curry in Manchester you do not go on the Curry Mile).

The Northern Quarter is best visited at night when and left (via the Shudehill Tram stop) before 930 pm, you cannot see the derilection, never the less there is a lebanese place that does the finest fish and chips i have ever tasted, and for less than a fiver. It had red seats.

NB Does anyone remember the cafe/restaraunt in Victoria Station before it had all that lovely decor ripped out, you could smell the anthracite (miasma?) in the place. It got redesigned and trashed about 15-20 yeras ago and has lost its atmosphere (miasma). It's me to the Chinese Quarter next Friday (Mad Friday)

 

[futureA]

I thought i'd post this link that has just been published as the main reason I came up with this idea was because of the terrible Metrolink system.

Why do you think that metrolink is 'terrible' (what causes most of the problems) and why do you think an underground would be automatically better?

Most of metrolink's problems are not inherent to it being a tram system.

It is also widely know that the MEN is biased against metrolink as will always report any story with a negative slant.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Those streets aren't really part of the "true" (by which I mean the expensive part) Northern Quarter though, that tends over more towards the flanks of the Arndale itself rather than more to the North East of Piccadilly Gardens.

Those areas are more like the curry mile, which although does not appear to be in the "best" of condition, probably do more business than any other place I have ever seen outside London. (Although frankly if you want a decent curry in Manchester you do not go on the Curry Mile).

Nip into This N' That for a curry if you are in the Northern Quarter. It's a bit 'dated' but the food is excellent.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Those streets aren't really part of the "true" (by which I mean the expensive part) Northern Quarter though, that tends over more towards the flanks of the Arndale itself rather than more to the North East of Piccadilly Gardens.

I must agree to differ with you on this matter. Long before the new apartment complexes were constructed, the rather bohemian shops that flank both sides of Oldham Street were most certainly referred to as being part of the Northern Quarter, when that title first entered into Mancunian patois.

Property developers have seen the attraction of using this name as an aid to marketing their wares in the newer areas described by you in your quote above.

 

[spargazer]

going back to the original idea of an underground, the idea was dumped because of the risk of fllooding from the Irwell and Medlock rivers, and cost. I wince at the near misses with pedestrians as a gaggle of trams 2-3 each way all within a 100 metres at the same time!
Out of interest on flicker.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/89153538@N08/ last friday night.
I actually tried to get on 2006 but was slow enough to miss it, the passengers had a 10min wait and were not alllowed to pull the red lever! on the rear door on the platform, the last carriage was on the platform. It was from Media city, full of BBC folk getting El Pendolino

 

[PR1Berske]

Well for several reasons, 1st being as I said the metrolink is terrible

This is an opinion, not fact, but if we step away from that, it's an ever expanding network across three (four?) boroughs, with a mix of rail and road running, so of course there will be delays. There are some problems which could be more easily fixed (such as PIDs and reducing the number of Alty trams which run when I'm waiting for a Chorlton one ) but "terrible" it is not.

the buses not too bad, but during rush hour it can take around 1 hour just to go 4-5 miles to get into the City

So slow in a major, busy city with limited pedestrianisation and a road-running tram scheme through the middle? NO!

Manchester also has the fastest growing population in the UK, and could do with a transport system to support that

I'm no TfGM cheerleader, but I think that's what they're trying to do.

also down to that Manchester is also developing a 'City' area just like London and will soon be beginning work on 4-5 new high rise buildings, thus drawing more people to work and live in the area

.

Can't fathom what this point is about, but I do agree that, like so many cities whose boundaries were 'fixed' (in more ways than one) in the 1970s, real life has not caught up with arbitrary lines on a map.

Manchester has also just started work on its new airport city which will be completed by about 2030, by that time Manchester would have overtaken Gatwick in passenger numbers

.

There's going to be an "Airport City" ?

So all in all when you consider growing population, growing economy, no real decent mass transport system it doesn't seem like the worst idea

"All in all" you've offered opinion and misunderstood reality.

You ask me why Manchester needs an underground train system

You bet we do.

well right now similar sized Cities around Europe do, such as Roma, do you question why Roma needs one?

I question why you're using Rome as an example, have you seen the state of their rolling stock The Rome Metro was built in a different age, for different reasons. I will say one thing, it's a Hell of a lot cheaper.

Say by 2030 if everything goes to plan Gtr.Manchester could have a population of around 3.5 million at least and you want those people to rely upon buses and a very unreliable tram system?

Well I sure as Heck don't want to rely on a Manchester drained of public money because of an attempt to tunnel underground has left the city council bankrupt.

The main reason Manchester needs it is to develop as a city

Yeah that's the one fault about Manchester, it's just not developing! Damn it, being all small and lacking ambition. What do they think they are, Salford?!

Madrid, Milan, Barcelona, Glasgow, London, Toronto all have metro/underground systems and trams too

Built in the 19th century, built under very different social circumstances, built under very different economic circumstances, built because the rock underneath the ground allowed them do, built because the foundations of buildings above ground allowed them do, etc.

I don't seem why that's such a crazy idea

That's your moral right.

but clearly to you all the Cities i've just mentioned must be crazy as they have trams and undergrounds

Non sequitur Klaxon!

 

[krus_aragon]

... Built in the 19th century, built under very different social circumstances, built under very different economic circumstances, built because the rock underneath the ground allowed them do, built because the foundations of buildings above ground allowed them do, etc.

Several of those subway systems were built in the 19th century, but Toronto didn't start building until 1949. The TTC built a cut-and-cover subway along Yonge St to replace the overloaded streetcar route (tram). It opened in 1954 or so, and all the cost of that original stretch (Union railway station to Eglington) was paid for out of fare revenues. In later decades, particularly as the subway network started to reach into the suburbs, the TTC found it needed government subsidy to operate and expand.

 

[Sidious]

1st being as I said the metrolink is terrible,

I don't live in Manchester, but my wife works there, and has a flatthere, so i visit regularly.

My personal opinion is that the public transport provision in Manchester is excellent. I think Metrolink is a victim of it's own success in so far as the trams are very crowded, which shows it is popular. Through the city-centre sections (Castlefield to Victoria / Piccadilly) the service is very frequent.

That's before the Orange, Purple and Green FREE buses are taken into account.

I think the underground rail network is a solution to a problem which does not exist, and I really wished that I lived in Manchester given the superb network and connectivity available compared to where I live.

I guess that those who are familiar with the system probably don't appreciate how good it is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't live in Manchester, but my wife works there, and has a flat there, so i visit regularly. My personal opinion is that the public transport provision in Manchester is excellent. I think Metrolink is a victim of it's own success in so far as the trams are very crowded, which shows it is popular. Through the city-centre sections (Castlefield to Victoria / Piccadilly) the service is very frequent.

I guess that those who are familiar with the system probably don't appreciate how good it is.

A very good comment from someone well outside the conurbation with no particular "axe to grind". The Manchester Metrolink total annual passenger usage figures speak for themselves.

The Metrolink network, when the current lines under construction are completed, will give quite a good conurbation coverage, when viewed as an adjunct to the heavy rail and the bus networks, not forgetting the matter of the Leigh Guided Busway which is also in early days of construction.

The matter is one that should be viewed as an attempt to offer public transport in Greater Manchester as a part of a co-ordinated viable offering to the travelling public.

 

[HSTEd]

About the only serious problem with Metrolink is that it can't really do anything in the Oxford Road corridor, which is probably the busiest corridor of them all.

 

[AndyLandy]

Is this thread for real?!

And I thought the suggestion for the Southampton Monorail was crazy...

 

[tbtc]

Is this thread for real?!

And I thought the suggestion for the Southampton Monorail was crazy...

It appears so. Many suggestions for infrastructure improvements in the UK are reasonably realistic, but when it comes to Manchester things tend to go out of the window - if some people don't get gold plated Monorails then they won't be happy

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If some people don't get gold plated Monorails then they won't be happy

I feel that the Monorail proposed in the 1960's from Middleton to Manchester Airport was only deeemed worthy of an "aluminium" finish..:cry:

Now if this had been from Prestbury, Wilmslow or Alderley Edge (the "magic triangle"), you could well have been right with the "gold-plated" one...

 

[PR1Berske]

It appears so. Many suggestions for infrastructure improvements in the UK are reasonably realistic, but when it comes to Manchester things tend to go out of the window - if some people don't get gold plated Monorails then they won't be happy

If there's no "Lancashire Underground", I'm not happy

 

[AndyLandy]

It appears so. Many suggestions for infrastructure improvements in the UK are reasonably realistic, but when it comes to Manchester things tend to go out of the window - if some people don't get gold plated Monorails then they won't be happy

Ooh, gold-plated you say? I'd never thought of that. I wonder how well that works for aerodynamics. After all, I want the Southampton Monorail to be able to do 100mph from the University to the city centre. If I can't make the journey in under 8 seconds, it's clearly inadequate.

 

[tbtc]

Ooh, gold-plated you say? I'd never thought of that. I wonder how well that works for aerodynamics. After all, I want the Southampton Monorail to be able to do 100mph from the University to the city centre. If I can't make the journey in under 8 seconds, it's clearly inadequate.

I heard that with padding the Public Timetable shows journeys taking up to fifteen seconds though

 

[Cheshire Rover]

About the only serious problem with Metrolink is that it can't really do anything in the Oxford Road corridor, which is probably the busiest corridor of them all.

The only serious issue with the Metrolink is the lack of information to show when the trams are due. I use the trams nearly every day at the peak and they are great. If I knew what time my tram was going to arrive would make them even better.