Manchester Fights To Keep Pacers

[dunks]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1093770_fight_to_keep_pacer_trains?rss=yes

These are the 5 which will be surplus when the Oldham Loop line closes later this year. Love them or hate them, they could be useful in boosting capacity.

 

[John_158]

Well the first thing that enters my mind is that Northern ougt to keep them and Sub Lease 6 156s to East Midlands Trains which i think are in Greater need of more stock.

Personlay i don't think overcrowding actually exists as a Railway problem as it is more of a psycological problem as people should spread them selfs out and not pile on the one trian whilst the one behind is empty.

 

[Phoenix]

Well the first thing that enters my mind is that Northern ougt to keep them and Sub Lease 6 156s to East Midlands Trains which i think are in Greater need of more stock.

Personlay i don't think overcrowding actually exists as a Railway problem as it is more of a psycological problem as people should spread them selfs out and not pile on the one trian whilst the one behind is empty.

Also to add people should actually share seats rather than sitting there bag next to them if they can put up with it on a bus they certainly can on the train.

 

[John_158]

Also to add people should actually share seats rather than sitting there bag next to them if they can put up with it on a bus they certainly can on the train.

All they have to do is ask and i will put it on my knee if the train is busy, One thing i notice is people don't seem to be able to see beyond there noses when it comes to finding a seat and tend to crowd arround the doors.

Another thing that i was thinking just this moring is that we should not have such odd Trains in this country now there is no real excuse for it i mean the ammount of unemployment there is there could be millions of jobs created in Manufacturnig Parts for trians and Building Trains etc.

 

[Phoenix]

All they have to do is ask and i will put it on my knee if the train is busy, One thing i notice is people don't seem to be able to see beyond there noses when it comes to finding a seat and tend to crowd arround the doors.

Another thing that i was thinking just this moring is that we should not have such odd Trains in this country now there is no real excuse for it i mean the ammount of unemployment there is there could be millions of jobs created in Manufacturnig Parts for trians and Building Trains etc.

Fair enough people should ask also.
But as for your second paragraph the problem is we actually haven't designed much in a while as a pure british country so I would imagine that we would end up just going bust.
Also it is cheaper and more reliable to buy abroad as we know what they offer and we know it works and this all annoys me also as I would like to see a pure british company start to manufacture to the scale BR used to but scaled down to modern day standards.

 

[John_158]

Theres a job for someone desighn a train i know could give idears and someone else could draw them.

Also isn't Alexander Dennis British ? I know its a Bus but at a time of such shortage of stock and buses are being built arround the clock perhaps some new Rail Buses could be built.

Just look at it this way if the 142s have lasted over twenty years then that has got to be good ok they had problems at first but they are still here.

New Rail Buses i would say would be built on a chasis simmler to 153s (Sprinter) or by recycling Old Trailer chasis that you see lying arround here and there id make them single cars as well with end gang ways so can be used up to three or addon to a 156 etc.

 

[Phoenix]

Theres a job for someone desighn a train i know could give idears and someone else could draw them.

Also isn't Alexander Dennis British ? I know its a Bus but at a time of such shortage of stock and buses are being built arround the clock perhaps some new Rail Buses could be built.

Just look at it this way if the 142s have lasted over twenty years then that has got to be good ok they had problems at first but they are still here.

New Rail Buses i would say would be built on a chasis simmler to 153s (Sprinter) or by recycling Old Trailer chasis that you see lying arround here and there id make them single cars as well with end gang ways so can be used up to three or addon to a 156 etc.

The problem with rail buses is they have a poor ride quality and generally are limited to slow speeds due to the design.
I agrree pacer's have lasted a long time and are great little things but in this day and age more needs to be done cause you idea is defrinatly a good one but what this country needs is a railway revolution.

By the way cool discussion

 

[John_158]

The problem with rail buses is they have a poor ride quality and generally are limited to slow speeds due to the design.

Yeh but what i actually mean is a Rail Bus with a Sprinter Chasis but at the same desighn as a 153 ie Single Car.

Immagine

An Alexander Pointer Dart on a Rail Chasis with bogies rather than a wheel in each corner.

Basicly a more modern Class 153 !

And in all honesty i never had an uncomfortable journey on a 142 well apart from whne one was on a Liverpool-Manchester Airport once pretty scary doing 75mph.

Definalty should stay with Northern thogh in order fo Northern to Sub-Lease 6 156s to EMT ither that or they give them to FGW and cascade 153s to EMT or send the 142s to ATW and ATW sub lease 153s to EMT.

 

[Phoenix]

The problem with rail buses is they have a poor ride quality and generally are limited to slow speeds due to the design.

Yeh but what i actually mean is a Rail Bus with a Sprinter Chasis but at the same desighn as a 153 ie Single Car.

Immagine

An Alexander Pointer Dart on a Rail Chasis with bogies rather than a wheel in each corner.

Basicly a more modern Class 153 !

And in all honesty i never had an uncomfortable journey on a 142 well apart from whne one was on a Liverpool-Manchester Airport once pretty scary doing 75mph.

Definalty should stay with Northern thogh in order fo Northern to Sub-Lease 6 156s to EMT ither that or they give them to FGW and cascade 153s to EMT or send the 142s to ATW and ATW sub lease 153s to EMT.

Fair point's and I would be interested in seeing how that would look.
And yes indeed They should stay with northern and Emt definatly need an increase in stock.

 

[LilLoaf]

SUB- LEASE 156's !!! Thats a mad idea let em have the 142's instead. Not 156's if Manchester don't want the 156's then Heaton can have them and EMT can have some 142's.

With crazy ideas like that you's should work for DFT. lol only joking with you

I do think that EMT could put 142's to good use like. Maybe on the skeggy.

 

[TEW]

The article makes it out that overcrowding is only happening in Manchester, it's not. It happens all over the country so anywhere else has just as much right to the trains.

 

[John_158]

SUB- LEASE 156's !!! Thats a mad idea let em have the 142's instead. Not 156's if Manchester don't want the 156's then Heaton can have them and EMT can have some 142's.

With crazy ideas like that you's should work for DFT. lol only joking with you

I do think that EMT could put 142's to good use like. Maybe on the skeggy.

There would be training to be done and issues with no End Gangways with 156s they would go into service streight away and be a back up for the Liverpool route as well and as a 156 pops up now again anyway on this route.

 

[GNERman]

Get rid of em
Their awful
BUT they are seful for extra capacity so maybe shove em in warm store at Newton Heath...

 

[Donny Dave]

I'm willing to take a chance and say the Pacers (or any other stock for that matter) will not be subleased by Northern as they are needed already.

Northern have had to borrow stock (the 180s) themselves recently as they do not have enough to cover their diagrams.

 

[MCR247]

SUB- LEASE 156's !!! Thats a mad idea let em have the 142's instead. Not 156's if Manchester don't want the 156's then Heaton can have them and EMT can have some 142's.

With crazy ideas like that you's should work for DFT. lol only joking with you

I do think that EMT could put 142's to good use like. Maybe on the skeggy.

I dont think pacers are clear for Nottingham! YAY!

 

[devon_metro]

There would be training to be done and issues with no End Gangways with 156s they would go into service streight away and be a back up for the Liverpool route as well and as a 156 pops up now again anyway on this route.

Or send the 142s which Northern took off (5x142s) FGW and send them back to Exeter where they were looked after much better, meaning FGW don't have to lease an expensive LHCS. That leaves Northern with 2 spare units.

Simple.

 

[Mintona]

Thing is, whilst they are very useful for getting people in an out of Manchester through the peaks, we don't really have a use for them through the rest of they day, and the DfT probably won't allow Northern to have trains sat around most of the day when other areas are vastly overcrowded.
Though we have one job in the morning booked for 2x142 which is more often than not just the single 142, due to unreliability! One busy train by Cheadle Hulme I am told...

 

[tbtc]

Thinking about it, it's slightly surprising that the Linconshire branch lines haven't had Pacers thrust upon them at some time (apart from the Sheffield - Lincoln services)...

 

[Chilled Phill]

Thing is, whilst they are very useful for getting people in an out of Manchester through the peaks, we don't really have a use for them through the rest of they day, and the DfT probably won't allow Northern to have trains sat around most of the day when other areas are vastly overcrowded.
Though we have one job in the morning booked for 2x142 which is more often than not just the single 142, due to unreliability! One busy train by Cheadle Hulme I am told...

Indeed. And even worse when one gets to Heaten Chapel.

 

[350401]

Hi, been lurking here for a while, but thought I'd finally join in

I catch that train pretty much every day to Uni - the 07.51 from Chelford to Manchester. Not to go too far off topic, but how come that train (and an increasing number of trains on the line) are operated by 142's? Pre 14th Dec timetable change, all services were operated by 323's (and we had an 08.19 train too that didn't skip us:P ) Seems quite pointless to have pacers running under an electric line? Is is because Northern are still short of a 323 following the Congleton crash? Is there an eta for it to return to 323 operation, or are we stuck with 142s for the foreseeable future? Its the only rush hour train now from Chelford post Dec 14, so being able to get a seat would be nice

Many thanks for your replies,

James

 

[Guinness]

Get rid of em
Their awful
BUT they are seful for extra capacity so maybe shove em in warm store at Newton Heath...

That's contradicting yourself, get rid of them but spend money storing them because they're useful for capacity sitting there doing nothing?

Pacers are quite clearly needed in the North West and these units will be valuable for doubling up services, keeping them in Warm Store will absolutely stupid. :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi, been lurking here for a while, but thought I'd finally join in

I catch that train pretty much every day to Uni - the 07.51 from Chelford to Manchester. Not to go too far off topic, but how come that train (and an increasing number of trains on the line) are operated by 142's? Pre 14th Dec timetable change, all services were operated by 323's (and we had an 08.19 train too that didn't skip us:P ) Seems quite pointless to have pacers running under an electric line? Is is because Northern are still short of a 323 following the Congleton crash? Is there an eta for it to return to 323 operation, or are we stuck with 142s for the foreseeable future? Its the only rush hour train now from Chelford post Dec 14, so being able to get a seat would be nice

Many thanks for your replies,

James

Welcome! Good to see another Cheshire man on here!

DMUs are substituting for 323s on a few services at the moment given that more units are required for the hourly Stoke-on-Trent services that have extended from Macclesfield and to cover for the 2 323s currently undergoing repairs (Alderley Edge & Congleton derailments). Usually DMUs can be seen on Deansgate/Man Picc to Hazel Grove services given the very similar journey times and "niche route".

 

[Mintona]

The Alderley Edge one (323235) is back in service now, in the new colours.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

The article makes it out that overcrowding is only happening in Manchester, it's not. It happens all over the country so anywhere else has just as much right to the trains.

In Greater Manchester its been a huge probem for a long time. A journey on a pacer unit into Manchester during rush hour is not a pleasant experience. With every seat full and all standing areas occupied. And infrequent train journeys its a well-documented nightmare.

 

[P156KWJ]

SUB- LEASE 156's !!! Thats a mad idea let em have the 142's instead. Not 156's if Manchester don't want the 156's then Heaton can have them and EMT can have some 142's.

With crazy ideas like that you's should work for DFT. lol only joking with you

I do think that EMT could put 142's to good use like. Maybe on the skeggy.

pacers banned in Nottingham, they tried with a 144 once but it got caped at CHD

 

[dunks]

The 20-year-old trains, which are so hated that they have been the subject of questions in the House of Lords

I find this sentence the most amusing!

 

[John_158]

Northern have leased the 180s for 18months untill they get the cascaded 150s from London Midland.

Sub-Leasing 156s i would be better than 142s for EMT becuse from what i expericenced on the Skegness line the track seemed to still be the Old Jointed track and we all know what 142s are like on jointed track.

I just wonder if West Yorkshire PTE would Sub-Lease the 155s to EMT as there not much different to the 153s.

Also i think that it may be an idear for Northern to Sub-Lease the three 180s to EMT for the two digrams that i came up with in the EMT Genral Discution thread for a short term basis at least.

I do think that the best idear may be for EMT to recive 153s on Sub-Lease as they would be more usefull to them.

By Sub-Leaseing as far as i can make out it would not involve the DfT as much if at all.

 

[Pumbaa]

Stupid and illogical jibberish as per usual, involving 180s and his ridiculous ideas

No - you don't seem to grasp the idea do you? Just because Northern will cease to run a service, doesn't mean they're going to get rid of the stock! Northern is massively overcrowded as it is, and will probably use the extra stock to bolster services or run a better maintenance schedule.

As it is, the 180s only exist on Northern, as they don't have enough trains. I highly doubt they will pass on units that they could use themselves.

 

[John_158]

Its all down to money at the ednd of the day !

 

[37401]

pacers are great they get mocked way too much but i think there great little units.

 

[Donny Dave]

Northern have leased the 180s for 18months untill they get the cascaded 150s from London Midland.

Sub-Leasing 156s i would be better than 142s for EMT becuse from what i expericenced on the Skegness line the track seemed to still be the Old Jointed track and we all know what 142s are like on jointed track.

I just wonder if West Yorkshire PTE would Sub-Lease the 155s to EMT as there not much different to the 153s.

Also i think that it may be an idear for Northern to Sub-Lease the three 180s to EMT for the two digrams that i came up with in the EMT Genral Discution thread for a short term basis at least.

I do think that the best idear may be for EMT to recive 153s on Sub-Lease as they would be more usefull to them.

By Sub-Leaseing as far as i can make out it would not involve the DfT as much if at all.

You do talk some complete crap !!!

If the 180s get transferred to EMT, then straight away, that's the Manchester Victoria - Blackpool service gone, as there will be no stock available to run it.

If the West Yorkshire 155s are transferred to EMT, then what covers those 7 diagrams? There is no spare stock available.

Grow up and shut up for once!