Manchester buses

[devonlad]

Hello all can anyone help going spotting in Manchester soon. Where is the best places for bus & trams , i'm a bit out of touch as just started spotting after a 30 yrs gap
thanks K

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Hello all can anyone help going spotting in Manchester soon. Where is the best places for bus & trams , i'm a bit out of touch as just started spotting after a 30 yrs gap
thanks K

Piccadilly Gardens is your best bet as it has loads of buses in and out and also the tram stop is there as well

 

[devonlad]

thanks

 

[northwichcat]

Not all buses serve Piccadilly Gardens so if you want to see a particular type of bus or a particular operator's bus you might need to go somewhere else as well. For example, the only service operated by Bullocks goes south from Piccadilly station, while Piccadilly Gardens is north of the station, while the battery operated Metroshuttles go near Piccadilly Gardens but don't serve Piccadilly Gardens.

 

[Dentonian]

Not all buses serve Piccadilly Gardens so if you want to see a particular type of bus or a particular operator's bus you might need to go somewhere else as well. For example, the only service operated by Bullocks goes south from Piccadilly station, while Piccadilly Gardens is north of the station, while the battery operated Metroshuttles go near Piccadilly Gardens but don't serve Piccadilly Gardens.

Note, the Bullocks service (147) only runs weekdays and is due to be withdrawn in July (iirc). It is nominally run by 4 11reg Volvo/Gemini hybrids that have recently lost "cherished" plates - presumably in preperation for Disposal. However, it has had at least one DAF/ALX400 on it regularly recently and the original Scania single-deckers often appear as well.

Don't forget, Piccadilly Gardens is surrounded by different termini. The Plaza (west side) where the tram stops, hosts Stagecoach's south Manchester services from Sharston and Hyde Road depots - including most MagicBus services - plus the 34 from Wigan depot; as well as First Bolton (mainly E400s) and Queens Road on the 33. Arriva services 263 (Sapphire E300s) and hourly 130 from Macc. Hyde Road corridor services plus the 192 (ST Hybrid E400s) and 219 (a mix of Ashton 'deckers) alight on Portland Street before heading SE back out of town past Picc Railway Station. To the east of the Gardens are Stagecoach's 216/31 (mostly Ashton depot MMCs) and 76 (theoretically, branded 10043-51 plus 3 other E400s), with Stagecoach Middleton and First services to Oldham and Bury passing these between Oldham Street and Lever Street. Look out for the Cityzap heading along Portland Street to/from Major Street, as well.
And then there is Shudehill Interchange, half a mile to the NE with more First services (Queens and Bolton depot ops); another Stagecoach Middleton service (56/156 run with a mix of types) and a few tenders run by the likes of MCT. Oh! and the occasional megabus.

And all that assumes you literally mean the city of Manchester, not the many satellite towns around the county.

Finally, allocation of specific types, never mind route-branded buses, is virtually extinct in GM now. Even MagicBuses regularly appear on other services at peak times, and if you visit after the Universities have would down (early July), this will become more obvious.

 

[devonlad]

Yes going Tuesday arriving by train to Piccadilly station thanks for help

 

[northwichcat]

Finally, allocation of specific types, never mind route-branded buses, is virtually extinct in GM now. Even MagicBuses regularly appear on other services at peak times, and if you visit after the Universities have would down (early July), this will become more obvious.

When I was thinking of different types of buses I was thinking along the lines of the battery operated Optare Versas which only seem to appear on the Metroshuttles - on occasions I've seen an old standard Optare Solo fill in for them but in central Manchester that's a rare sight, also the 135 Manchester to Bury which is just about the only route you ever see a bendy bus on in Manchester. Transdev (Burnley & Pendle and Lancashire United) have route branded vehicles for Witchway, CityZap and Lancashire Way and they usually stay on the routes they are supposed to be on. There's also Megabus services departing from Shudehill and National Express services departing from Chorlton Street Coach station - which is also where High Peak Buses' TransPeak service departs from.

 

[Statto]

Piccadilly is one of those terminuses were stops are spread out over a wide area either side of the gardens, & some stops on London Road towards Piccadilly rail station quite awkward finding a decent spot to take photos. Shudehill is the other bus station in the City Centre mostly First Manchester with some Stagecoach & Arriva services, same problems as Piccadilly trying to find a decent spot to take pics.

 

[Dentonian]

When I was thinking of different types of buses I was thinking along the lines of the battery operated Optare Versas which only seem to appear on the Metroshuttles - on occasions I've seen an old standard Optare Solo fill in for them but in central Manchester that's a rare sight, also the 135 Manchester to Bury which is just about the only route you ever see a bendy bus on in Manchester. Transdev (Burnley & Pendle and Lancashire United) have route branded vehicles for Witchway, CityZap and Lancashire Way and they usually stay on the routes they are supposed to be on. There's also Megabus services departing from Shudehill and National Express services departing from Chorlton Street Coach station - which is also where High Peak Buses' TransPeak service departs from.

The battery Versas and MetroShuttle liveried buses are solely for those routes. They are occasionally supplemented by "standard" buses from First's Queens Road depot, including Hybrid Volvo/Geminis, but the Solos you mention (some of which were originally used on MetroShuttle in its early days) have now all gone for scrap - or at least to Oldham for local services there and (increasingly rarely) Ashton. The bendis have been left to rot behind Bolton depot, being withdrawn soon after Bury depot closed. Most 135s are now standard Geminis. Operators based outside GM are much better at keeping buses on routes that they are branded for.

 

[northwichcat]

The battery Versas and MetroShuttle liveried buses are solely for those routes. They are occasionally supplemented by "standard" buses from First's Queens Road depot, including Hybrid Volvo/Geminis, but the Solos you mention (some of which were originally used on MetroShuttle in its early days) have now all gone for scrap - or at least to Oldham for local services there and (increasingly rarely) Ashton.

I'm not sure when the old Solos moved but I saw one on the Metroshuttle last December and thought that's a rare sight. If First are like other operators buses will get loaned from one depot to another from time to time.

I remember when First put one of their buses in vintage Lancashire United livery. Given another operator uses the brand Lancashire United today that First bus in vintage livery needed to stay away from areas where present day Lancashire United operated - but it didn't!

 

[Dentonian]

I'm not sure when the old Solos moved but I saw one on the Metroshuttle last December and thought that's a rare sight. If First are like other operators buses will get loaned from one depot to another from time to time.

I remember when First put one of their buses in vintage Lancashire United livery. Given another operator uses the brand Lancashire United today that First bus in vintage livery needed to stay away from areas where present day Lancashire United operated - but it didn't!

The older, smaller Solos have all gone for scrap earlier this year, but a couple of the longer ones (54 reg) may have still been at Queens Road immediately before transferring to Doncaster.

As for vintage liveries; Obviously, the idea was to allocated the buses to depots that would see them running in areas that were familiar with the name. Although, whether it was a good idea to remind people of what in bus terms really were "the good, old days" is questionable. The fact that there is another company who have resurrected (some might say "stolen") the name, operating in part of the original LUT area, may not have been seen as relevant. And tbf, the new Lancashire United had a completely different livery; which to my mind was probably *the* smartest livery GM has seen since 1986.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Note, the Bullocks service (147) only runs weekdays and is due to be withdrawn in July (iirc). It is nominally run by 4 11reg Volvo/Gemini hybrids that have recently lost "cherished" plates - presumably in preperation for Disposal. However, it has had at least one DAF/ALX400 on it regularly recently and the original Scania single-deckers often appear as well.

Don't forget, Piccadilly Gardens is surrounded by different termini. The Plaza (west side) where the tram stops, hosts Stagecoach's south Manchester services from Sharston and Hyde Road depots - including most MagicBus services - plus the 34 from Wigan depot; as well as First Bolton (mainly E400s) and Queens Road on the 33. Arriva services 263 (Sapphire E300s) and hourly 130 from Macc. Hyde Road corridor services plus the 192 (ST Hybrid E400s) and 219 (a mix of Ashton 'deckers) alight on Portland Street before heading SE back out of town past Picc Railway Station. To the east of the Gardens are Stagecoach's 216/31 (mostly Ashton depot MMCs) and 76 (theoretically, branded 10043-51 plus 3 other E400s), with Stagecoach Middleton and First services to Oldham and Bury passing these between Oldham Street and Lever Street. Look out for the Cityzap heading along Portland Street to/from Major Street, as well.
And then there is Shudehill Interchange, half a mile to the NE with more First services (Queens and Bolton depot ops); another Stagecoach Middleton service (56/156 run with a mix of types) and a few tenders run by the likes of MCT. Oh! and the occasional megabus.

And all that assumes you literally mean the city of Manchester, not the many satellite towns around the county.

Finally, allocation of specific types, never mind route-branded buses, is virtually extinct in GM now. Even MagicBuses regularly appear on other services at peak times, and if you visit after the Universities have would down (early July), this will become more obvious.

Don't forget St Peter's Square where the Vantage V1/V2 luxury buses (operated by First), as well as the Stagecoach 50, go through due to their cross-city nature! Also Chorlton Street where you get the National Express coaches using their dedicated station for Manchester with the odd Transpeak bus to Derby using it as well! The stop across the road from the coach station is used by Transdev for their X41 and X43 express buses towards East Lancashire as well as the new Cityzap nonstop (almost) service to Leeds!

 

[6Gman]

As others have said, there's no single "best" spot but the two I tend to favour for sheer volume are:

1. Portland Street at the exit from the Piccadilly Gardens stops - plenty of Stagecoch, some First (mostly Bolton), Arriva, and the trams. Move a little further down Portland Street and you'll get stuff going into Chorlton Street (N Express, LU/B&P, the occasional TransPeak but lose the trams).
2. Shudehill, between the entrance and exit to the bus station.

 

[pdsalford]

You can be guaranteed not to see the bus you're waiting for though.

 

[devonlad]

thanks for the replys

 

[Dentonian]

You can be guaranteed not to see the bus you're waiting for though.

LOL. That happens everywhere, though!
Maybe we should have a "BusRadar24" (as in FlightRadar24 that even non-plane spotters will have seen on news items from time to time). Apart from the obvious advantages from a hobby point of view, it would help finding the better quality buses on frequent services when travelling the route.

 

[northwichcat]

LOL. That happens everywhere, though!
Maybe we should have a "BusRadar24" (as in FlightRadar24 that even non-plane spotters will have seen on news items from time to time). Apart from the obvious advantages from a hobby point of view, it would help finding the better quality buses on frequent services when travelling the route.

Very unlikely to happen due to how much it would cost. However, should a facility could be useful for local authorities monitoring contracted services to check the capacity and age of vehicles comply with the contract terms.

 

[Dentonian]

Very unlikely to happen due to how much it would cost. However, should a facility could be useful for local authorities monitoring contracted services to check the capacity and age of vehicles comply with the contract terms.

FR24 was set up by techno savvy Plane Spotters based in Stockholm, so is totally independant of public authorities or individual large companies. As with most such sites, money is made through advertising and optional enhancements to the basic system.

 

[northwichcat]

FR24 was set up by techno savvy Plane Spotters based in Stockholm, so is totally independant of public authorities or individual large companies. As with most such sites, money is made through advertising and optional enhancements to the basic system.

There would need to be equipment installed on every bus in the UK to make a bus tracking site possible and even then it would rely on operators making their data open access. Operators may be reluctant to do that for security reasons, after all buses are much easier to steal than aircraft!

 

[Dentonian]

There would need to be equipment installed on every bus in the UK to make a bus tracking site possible and even then it would rely on operators making their data open access. Operators may be reluctant to do that for security reasons, after all buses are much easier to steal than aircraft!

Open data Access is covered in the new legislation covering Bus Reform, but I take your point about installing on all buses - no idea of the unit cost, though. And whilst it might be much easier to steal a bus than an aircraft, I doubt your average Joy rider thinks "I'm going to steal (ie.) 19413. Though, he/she would be doing HE corridor passengers a big favour if they did(!)

It does remind me of the very old joke about two drunken I***hmen (other lazy national sterotypes are available) managed to stagger out of Manchester as far as Hyde Road depot, before deciding to steal a bus to get home to Hattersley. One staggers round one side of the depot and the other the opposite side. After a while, they meet back up near the entrance and say "Its no good, we've been all round the depot and we can't find a 201 anywhere"..............................

 

[Y961 XBU]

Except for some Citaros showing as in use at Oldham i think my First Manchester Fleetlist is close to correct if its any help to you

 

[northwichcat]

Open data Access is covered in the new legislation covering Bus Reform, but I take your point about installing on all buses - no idea of the unit cost, though. And whilst it might be much easier to steal a bus than an aircraft, I doubt your average Joy rider thinks "I'm going to steal (ie.) 19413. Though, he/she would be doing HE corridor passengers a big favour if they did(!)

It does remind me of the very old joke about two drunken I***hmen (other lazy national sterotypes are available) managed to stagger out of Manchester as far as Hyde Road depot, before deciding to steal a bus to get home to Hattersley. One staggers round one side of the depot and the other the opposite side. After a while, they meet back up near the entrance and say "Its no good, we've been all round the depot and we can't find a 201 anywhere"..............................

I was thinking too much information available on a bus tracker might show an out-of-service vehicle stopping somewhere remote e.g. for a driver to use the toilet.

I'm sure open access for bus operators relates to fare information and real time running info rather than whether your service is operated by a Streetlite or not, nevermind the exact vehicle.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I'm sure open access for bus operators relates to fare information and real time running info rather than whether your service is operated by a Streetlite or not, nevermind the exact vehicle.

That information comes from the ticket machine which these days is part of the vehicle fixtures. As such you can be sure that the transmitted data does at least include the vehicle number in some form. But being able to extract and interpret that information would depend not only on such systems being standardised but also on any independent data gathering network having enough receivers to cover the entire bus network. Airborne aircraft do not have much to block their signals other than the curvature of the earth, buses however...

 

[Dentonian]

Except for some Citaros showing as in use at Oldham i think my First Manchester Fleetlist is close to correct if its any help to you

Actually, there have been a number of changes since this was in force - largely following services cuts last month. In some kind of numerical order; At least three of the '51 reg ALX400s from Oldham have gone, with others due to go (to Eastern Counties, I believe). However, all of the X reg ones seem to be still in service, and can be sometimes be seen on Oldham Street/Lever Street - most likely on the 59. All the Presidents except the 2 X-reg ones have been sold/scrapped. The first 10 or so 14 reg E400s shown as Rusholme have been transferred to Bolton (some via Oldham); all the 40xxx Solos have gone, as have some of the 54 reg ones - swapped with four shorter ones from Doncaster; The Citaroes were all withdrawn around Easter and have now begun to be sold; All the E300s are now concentrated at Oldham; where ostensibly they are the mainstay of the 81/81A service from Oldham Street which pass Shudehill on their way in/out of M'cr. Finally, on the credit side, 3 13 reg B7RLEs have transferred from West of England, although you would almost certainly need to go to Bolton to see these.

 

[Dentonian]

That information comes from the ticket machine which these days is part of the vehicle fixtures. As such you can be sure that the transmitted data does at least include the vehicle number in some form. But being able to extract and interpret that information would depend not only on such systems being standardised but also on any independent data gathering network having enough receivers to cover the entire bus network. Airborne aircraft do not have much to block their signals other than the curvature of the earth, buses however...

Digressing slightly, FR24 identifies most airliners on the ground, although it sometimes struggles with smaller types (less than 100 seats) below about 1000ft

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Digressing slightly, FR24 identifies most airliners on the ground, although it sometimes struggles with smaller types (less than 100 seats) below about 1000ft

The point I was making is that buses spend quite a bit of time in built-up areas where buildings will quickly dampen any data signals. Some will not be aware that FR24 depends on suitably interested people having the appropriate equipment running through an on-line PC to allow a network of data receivers to exist. Aircraft are in difficult to track areas, mostly on the ground, for relatively short times and even airports are quite open spaces meaning signals are easy enough to receive. Even if a "BusRadar24" system was possible I doubt there would be anything like enough interested people to provide a sufficiently comprehensive network of data receivers. Such utility would depend entirely on operators being willing to provide it as they do in the Netherlands: https://ovzoeker.nl/ where you can find details of both buses and trains with details both about vehicle/unit numbers and the journey currently being undertaken.

As for low altitude aircraft FlyBe's whole fleet seems to disappear below about 3,000ft...

 

[Dentonian]

As for low altitude aircraft FlyBe's whole fleet seems to disappear below about 3,000ft...

That's because they operate DHC Dash 8s and Embraer 175/195s, which alongside Canadair RJs are the types most difficult to track at low height, although I think 3.000ft is a bit of an exaggeration. A/c pass my window at c.2,500ft but few disappear until much closer to MAN.

 

[radamfi]

Just in case people aren't aware, publicly accessible bus tracking has been available for many years throughout Europe (even in so called "poor" countries) and in London since about 2011. It isn't just a "nice to have", it should have been mandatory at least 5 years ago.

 

[Kahuna47]

Finally, on the credit side, 3 13 reg B7RLEs have transferred from West of England, although you would almost certainly need to go to Bolton to see these.

I've seen them mostly on non-Manchester routes around Bolton - usually on 2, 511 and 582. Hang around Bolton Interchange for an hour for those though. They were brought in to help bolster Vantage services as they've came directly off a similar (I think!) Busway in the Portsmouth area. They've had their guidewheels removed and haven't seen Vantage work yet!

I had the pleasure of driving one of these vehicles a couple of weeks ago and was a pleasure to drive. Good acceleration, gorgeous suspension (im comparison to the usual sheds First have!), and don't tell engineering but the Air Con still works!

K

 

[northwichcat]

Just in case people aren't aware, publicly accessible bus tracking has been available for many years throughout Europe (even in so called "poor" countries) and in London since about 2011. It isn't just a "nice to have", it should have been mandatory at least 5 years ago.

Like I alluded to already it's one thing have real time running information for public bus services, it's another thing having a national system which shows all bus movements (even school services and buses running out-of-service) and exactly what vehicles are where at any time, like exists for rail services.