Man who'd drunk six pints couldn't get the train home

[js1000]

Given that it is illegal to be drunk in a public house, how did he manage to consume six pints of beer?

Good luck enforcing that one.

 

[Wolfie]

The difference being, I would expect your ex to have some sort of card that explains the condition.
Many other disabilities do.
However, if the person should not go challenged, how do you stop people who do not look like they can look after themselves becoming a liability on the railway?
You will have to offend/put down one group of people.

No she did not have a card. In any event the Equality Act, which frankly trumps the mickey mouse railway byelaws, imposes no duty on disabled people to carry any such card. I am sure that the Equality Commission would take severe issue, and major legal action, with any such suggestion.
The 'putting down' comment (not intended l'm sure but.. .) comes over as 'final solution'esque. ...

 

[PermitToTravel]

being drunk isn't a crime, however people can be arrested, without disorder, for being "drunk and incapable". I feel like that's a good threshold.

 

[whhistle]

No she did not have a card. In any event the Equality Act, which frankly trumps the mickey mouse railway byelaws, imposes no duty on disabled people to carry any such card. I am sure that the Equality Commission would take severe issue, and major legal action, with any such suggestion.
The 'putting down' comment (not intended l'm sure but.. .) comes over as 'final solution'esque. ...

Perhaps she should think of getting one to save any agro or help paramedics.

But the problem still exists... how can you please all people at all times? I challenge you - come up with a better solution than what is presently available.

You can't blame the TOC - it's easier (better?) for them to ban drunk people (or people who an employee has deemed too intoxicated by their standards) under health and safety, which believe it or not, would trump any sort of disability law.

 

[Wolfie]

Perhaps she should think of getting one to save any agro or help paramedics.

But the problem still exists... how can you please all people at all times? I challenge you - come up with a better solution than what is presently available.

You can't blame the TOC - it's easier (better?) for them to ban drunk people (or people who an employee has deemed too intoxicated by their standards) under health and safety, which believe it or not, would trump any sort of disability law.

WRT your last para l wish you luck in convincing any Court that such an approach:
a. Constitutes making all reasonable adjustments for disabled people;
b. Does not constitute indirect discrimination against such people.

No chance!

 

[Stigy]

WRT your last para l wish you luck in convincing any Court that such an approach:
a. Constitutes making all reasonable adjustments for disabled people;
b. Does not constitute indirect discrimination against such people.

No chance!

The Byelaws use the word “believe” quite a lot. We’re not doctors or professionals in any field which covers disability. If somebody appears drunk, that’s enough in the eyes of the law. If staff believe there’s more to it than meets the eye, or indeed if the person would be at particular risk if one were to simply ‘boot them out’, then they should adhere to their TOC’s ‘Volunerable Persons protocol’ which they should have in place, if they don’t want to end up in said court themselves one day.

 

[Wolfie]

The Byelaws use the word “believe” quite a lot. We’re not doctors or professionals in any field which covers disability. If somebody appears drunk, that’s enough in the eyes of the law. If staff believe there’s more to it than meets the eye, or indeed if the person would be at particular risk if one were to simply ‘boot them out’, then they should adhere to their TOC’s ‘Volunerable Persons protocol’ which they should have in place, if they don’t want to end up in said court themselves one day.

Time for some serious training in disability awareness methinks.

I heard a horror story in that general field yesterday. Will put up a separate thread when l have time. Involved a staff member 'with attitude' on London Overground.
l know that a complaint is going in and, just to make sure it isn't swept under the carpet (as is Arriva's norm), is being copied to Sadiq Khan and Jeremy Corbyn (MP of the individual and the station in question is in his constituency).

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

It’s not illegal to be drunk in public, however it is an offence to be drunk and disorderly. No copper is going to arrest somebody for just being drunk, even if it was illegal, as the custody sergeant wouldn’t authorise their detention unless there’s a necessity for the arrest.
.

Down here if you're drunk enough to be deemed a danger to yourself then they will nick you and you get a free ride in a police car home or to the local cop shop to sober up. At worst they'll give you a fine.

 

[Stigy]

Time for some serious training in disability awareness methinks.

I heard a horror story in that general field yesterday. Will put up a separate thread when l have time. Involved a staff member 'with attitude' on London Overground.
l know that a complaint is going in and, just to make sure it isn't swept under the carpet (as is Arriva's norm), is being copied to Sadiq Khan and Jeremy Corbyn (MP of the individual and the station in question is in his constituency).

I’ve not read every post in this thread so apologies here, however, are you talking about a disability which means that the sufferer appears intoxicated? Like for example where hypoglycaemia can present like intoxication? (Bear in mind Hypoglycaemia is a medical emergency so if people are being chucked out if stations when having one this isn’t on of course and people need to be aware of it).

Nobody is simply going to kick somebody out, alone, who’s a danger to themselves. Or at least they shouldn’t. In which case, an ambulance would usually attend and they’d argue with the police about who should take care of them. If it’s a Hypo, the ambulance crew would obviously notice this and deal with it. As should any First Aider to be fair.

If you’re referring to a disability whereby the sufferer appears intoxicated all the time, then I agree with what somebody else said in that they should present this by way of a medical card or something, or. It be travelling alone. It’s about common sense, not what is required to satisfy the Equality Act.

 

[Stigy]

Down here if you're drunk enough to be deemed a danger to yourself then they will nick you and you get a free ride in a police car home or to the local cop shop to sober up. At worst they'll give you a fine.

Where’s that? Lol. At best (or worse, depending on your outlook?) where I work the Police will argue with the ambulance service if it gets that far.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Where’s that? Lol. At best (or worse, depending on your outlook?) where I work the Police will argue with the ambulance service if it gets that far.

Australia, where drinking is a national sport for some. Our police and emergency services don't tend to tolerate drunks.

 

[Stigy]

Australia, where drinking is a national sport for some. Our police and emergency services don't tend to tolerate drunks.

Fair enough, assumed it was the U.K. but now I understand. Would never happen in this country.

 

[Wolfie]

I’ve not read every post in this thread so apologies here, however, are you talking about a disability which means that the sufferer appears intoxicated? Like for example where hypoglycaemia can present like intoxication? (Bear in mind Hypoglycaemia is a medical emergency so if people are being chucked out if stations when having one this isn’t on of course and people need to be aware of it).

Nobody is simply going to kick somebody out, alone, who’s a danger to themselves. Or at least they shouldn’t. In which case, an ambulance would usually attend and they’d argue with the police about who should take care of them. If it’s a Hypo, the ambulance crew would obviously notice this and deal with it. As should any First Aider to be fair.

If you’re referring to a disability whereby the sufferer appears intoxicated all the time, then I agree with what somebody else said in that they should present this by way of a medical card or something, or. It be travelling alone. It’s about common sense, not what is required to satisfy the Equality Act.

Re your last para her symptoms were broadly similar to those for MS (e.g. unstable walking, shakes, slurred speech etc) albeit that the causes were different.

The incident l referred to related more to the general treatment of injured/disabled people..

 

[Stigy]

Re your last para her symptoms were broadly similar to those for MS (e.g. unstable walking, shakes, slurred speech etc) albeit that the causes were different.

The incident l referred to related more to the general treatment of injured/disabled people..

So what did she suffer from? She’d have been able to tell staff herself if she was an MS sufferer, and if she couldn’t, she should have been accompanied. Unless she was experiencing some sort of episode? Re your last paragraph, most staff are switched on enough to know when somebody is disabled or injured, and if they’re not, I agree they should be retrained.