Man arrested for using plug socket on Overground train

[Tetchytyke]

I did read something about this incident on social media and assumed that there must be a bit more to it?

There's always more to it than meets the eye. I'm sure the guy was actually nicked for being abusive, something which is alluded to in the report at the end

However I am amazed that given the amount of beggars and other anti-social behaviour you see on Overground that the plastic copper doesn't have anything better to be doing with their time. Does it really matter if someone is using a plug socket that's marked not for public use? Of course not. All this talk of "stealing" electricity is ridiculous, it's not like he's hooked a George Foreman grill up to it and is flogging bacon butties to commuters. Why not go and catch some proper criminals?

 

[Peter Jones]

I had a similar problem at Plymouth station about 5 or 6 years ago. I was on-board a railtour hauled by D1015 Western Champion (formed of Mark 1 stock, therefore no plugs on the train where I was sat) and my phone was running low on charge. The train was booked to stand for around 30 minutes at Plymouth station, so during the break there I went into a platform waiting room and found a socket on the wall and plugged my phone in to charge it. There was no sign on or around the socket indicating that it was not for public use.

After around 15 minutes a member of the BTP walked past, looked inside the waiting room, saw what I was doing, and came in.

Without any form of polite greeting or introduction, he immediately threatened to arrest me for abstracting electricity if I did not unplug my charger straight away. His attitude was extremely surly from the outset to say the least. I had not even had chance to utter a word at this point, as I was so surprised by what he said over what I believed to be such a trivial misunderstanding.

I did what he requested, and responded to him in a polite manner that there was nothing to say it was not for public use. He said the socket was for cleaners use only. He then threatened to arrest me again if I plugged it back in after he left. By that time the train was nearly due to leave so I went and re-boarded it.

My view was that the BTP officer could have handled it a lot more politely! He certainly needed to brush up on his public relations.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I think yorkie is saying there should be plug sockets for passengers to use.

Ones where they can use the electricity legally.

I suspect the bloke got abusive. He should have remained civil at all times to avoid being arrested.

Due to lack of plug sockets on most trains, I carry round a battery charger. That avoids the problem..

I wonder if anyone would tell someone off for using a device other than a laptop or mobile on one of South West Trains 444s, which does have plug sockets for public use? The notice only says you can use laptops or mobile phones. If someone used a tablet then theoretically I guess they could be told to unplug it. I can't see it actually happening mind you.

But what happens if the tablet van make phone calls?

If it was a portable DVD player that would be more clear cut. I know it's all hypothetical.

They say they're for phones and laptops only to stop people trying to plug in kettles, toasters etc. In the UK and Ireland people are used to all sockets being equal, since it's the same BS1363 socket which is used from phone chargers to kettles. Other countries have subtly different sockets for different areas and power usages, which means people aren't as likely to try plugging in a high-power device into wiring which can only support low-power devices.

 

[thenorthern]

Other countries have subtly different sockets for different areas and power usages, which means people aren't as likely to try plugging in a high-power device into wiring which can only support low-power devices.

Does the London Underground still have the Walsall Gauge sockets which is the same as the 3 pin socket just the pins are rotated 90 degrees.

 

[DaleCooper]

However I am amazed that given the amount of beggars and other anti-social behaviour you see on Overground that the plastic copper doesn't have anything better to be doing with their time. Does it really matter if someone is using a plug socket that's marked not for public use? Of course not. All this talk of "stealing" electricity is ridiculous, it's not like he's hooked a George Foreman grill up to it and is flogging bacon butties to commuters. Why not go and catch some proper criminals?

A PCSO can only deal with what they see, I don't suppose the PCSO in question was actively looking for people charging their phones but just happened upon one and quite rightly asked them to stop. Possibly it was the person's attitude which ended up wasting the time of the PCSO and other officers who could otherwise have been dealing with the offenders you mention.

 

[Geezertronic]

If this guy treated the PCSOs with the contempt some of you guys seem to hold for them, then it's no wonder he was arrested for being an idiot with an attitude if that is indeed what happened. On far too many occasions, I have heard or seen something like this where individuals think the rules do not apply to them. They are the ones who deserve contempt, not the PCSOs who have to apply the rules.

 

[bnm]

Are these sockets on a dedicated circuit?

If so, why can't they be disconnected by circuit breaker when the train is in service?

If not, they should be.

 

[sarahj]

Are these sockets on a dedicated circuit?

If so, why can't they be disconnected by circuit breaker when the train is in service?

If not, they should be.

A good question, and one I think off most days, along with, why can there not be a simple reset switch for the pass com on a southern refurbished 313, rather than the hit and miss of lifting handsets, that sometimes works, sometimes does not. :-x

 

[Tom B]

I recall a tale about a lady who plugged hair straighteners into one on a 225 during GNER days. I believe it lasted for half her hair before it tripped. The guard, when encountering a stroppy lady with half a hairdo, was apparently most amused.

 

[talldave]

Serves the guy right for buying an iphone . I carry a spare battery for my phone, so on the rare occasions I flatten it, I can just swap it over .

Apple do seem to have created a generation of people who think it's their right to abstract power from anywhere. However, there's an ignorance issue of the cost of the theft here - how often would police go chasing after any other theft where the value was less than 1p?

 

[D365]

Apple do seem to have created a generation of people who think it's their right to abstract power from anywhere. However, there's an ignorance issue of the cost of the theft here - how often would police go chasing after any other theft where the value was less than 1p?

How on earth do you lay the blame at Apple alone?

You're right about the last point though, they clearly weren't chasing him up for the electricity bill. I'm sure it won't cost your battery dearly to read that it likely wasn't much of a headline at all.

:roll:

 

[jon0844]

I'm amazed more people don't buy portable battery chargers, given so many modern smartphones have such poor battery life.

The iPhone has of course helped make all companies seek to make every phone as slim as possible (some now down to around 5mm) which not only makes them susceptible to bending, but also means a smaller battery than could otherwise be fitted. It's not obviously all the fault of Apple, but Jony Ive did say in an interview that good design was more important, and that people wouldn't like a thicker device (so clearly he doesn't speak for me as I'd take a device that's 8-10mm thick and has an extra 1,000mAh inside or more any day of the week).

The iPhone 6+ has a pretty decent battery, but the ordinary 6 and all previous models are pretty awful.

As for this guy, he clearly failed your attitude test and was dealt with accordingly. Total non story, and I say that as someone who doesn't think much of PCSOs in general (yet what you think in private doesn't mean abusing them in real life).

 

[talldave]

How on earth do you lay the blame at Apple alone?

You're right about the last point though, they clearly weren't chasing him up for the electricity bill. I'm sure it won't cost your battery dearly to read that it likely wasn't much of a headline at all.

:roll:

They started the trend for non-replaceable batteries, which at the same time weren't up to the job. In contrast, my Samsung Galaxy had an optional "thicker" back that allowed for a higher capacity battery in addition to being able to swap it out anyway. Sadly, everyone's gone down the design over function approach now .

 

[mbreckers]

Quote from the Daily Mail (please dont shout at me for quoting daily mail):

'The electricity on those trains is self-generated. It's a dynamo. Therefore, it's completely self-sufficient. It's not as if I'm nicking it. The whole thing is ludicrous.'

I'm not an expert on the technical aspect of how train electrical systems are built, but I'm guessing it's not self-generated -_-

 

[notadriver]

That's like saying the electricity from a car cigarette socket is free ? Of course it would use extra fuel.

 

[Flamingo]

My reading of the article is that a self-important git tells PCSO to naff off when he's told not to use a socket that is marked "Not for public use only", and then gets to find out that the PCSO's ability to bugger him about is MUCH greater than his ability to bugger the PCSO about. Just checked my "Give-A-Damn-O-Meter" (patent pending), and there is not a flicker...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My ex's brother is a DC in the Met. He never had a good word to say about PCSOs ("wannabes" was one usual comment) and called them "Reliant Robins" (which was their street name apparently - think about the most common nickname for those vehicles).

I can think of a fair few people who would not have a very high opinion of a DC in the Met either....

 

[Starmill]

I'm amazed more people don't buy portable battery chargers, given so many modern smartphones have such poor battery life

Why? People have a lot of stuff to carry as it is, and they spend a lot of money on a phone that's thin and low in mass. Why would they then expect to have to purchase and subsequently lug around another heavy box, in addition to it's charger, just to be able to use it?

 

[47802]

I think most people regard PSCOs as clueless muppets who frequently don't know the law and as such are probably far more inclined to argue with them than they would with a normal Police Officer.

 

[yorksrob]

I had a similar problem at Plymouth station about 5 or 6 years ago. I was on-board a railtour hauled by D1015 Western Champion (formed of Mark 1 stock, therefore no plugs on the train where I was sat) and my phone was running low on charge. The train was booked to stand for around 30 minutes at Plymouth station, so during the break there I went into a platform waiting room and found a socket on the wall and plugged my phone in to charge it. There was no sign on or around the socket indicating that it was not for public use.

After around 15 minutes a member of the BTP walked past, looked inside the waiting room, saw what I was doing, and came in.

Without any form of polite greeting or introduction, he immediately threatened to arrest me for abstracting electricity if I did not unplug my charger straight away. His attitude was extremely surly from the outset to say the least. I had not even had chance to utter a word at this point, as I was so surprised by what he said over what I believed to be such a trivial misunderstanding.

I did what he requested, and responded to him in a polite manner that there was nothing to say it was not for public use. He said the socket was for cleaners use only. He then threatened to arrest me again if I plugged it back in after he left. By that time the train was nearly due to leave so I went and re-boarded it.

My view was that the BTP officer could have handled it a lot more politely! He certainly needed to brush up on his public relations.

I would have written a letter of complaint to the station manager.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why? People have a lot of stuff to carry as it is, and they spend a lot of money on a phone that's thin and low in mass. Why would they then expect to have to purchase and subsequently lug around another heavy box, in addition to it's charger, just to be able to use it?

Because people are responsible for themselves, and providing sockets on a metro-style service with Tube-style seating is really rather down on the priorities.

 

[sng7]

Why? People have a lot of stuff to carry as it is, and they spend a lot of money on a phone that's thin and low in mass. Why would they then expect to have to purchase and subsequently lug around another heavy box, in addition to it's charger, just to be able to use it?

The smaller backup batteries are about the same size as a charger which you wouldn't have to carry if you had one so there nothing unreasonable about people carrying one of them around instead of a charger

 

[najaB]

Why? People have a lot of stuff to carry as it is, and they spend a lot of money on a phone that's thin and low in mass. Why would they then expect to have to purchase and subsequently lug around another heavy box, in addition to it's charger, just to be able to use it?

I carry a 5000mAh battery with me, it weighs 123g (when charged). I'd hardly consider that to be heavy and it's definitely worth the two and half times extension to my phone's battery life.

 

[RailAleFan]

I've always thought that "DANGER! 10,000 VOLTS" would be slightly more of a deterrent than "Not for customer use".

I presume that building regulations don't apply to trains, but seriously though, if the output of what looks like a domestic UK plug socket, and in an area of the train used by the general public, is not actually consistent with the specifications of a domestic UK plug socket then shouldn't it be locked away from public use not just have a sticker above it?

 

[DaleCooper]

I carry a 5000mAh battery with me, it weighs 123g (when charged). I'd hardly consider that to be heavy and it's definitely worth the two and half times extension to my phone's battery life.

...and weighs 122.999999999999g when fully discharged.

 

[Antman]

If this guy treated the PCSOs with the contempt some of you guys seem to hold for them, then it's no wonder he was arrested for being an idiot with an attitude if that is indeed what happened. On far too many occasions, I have heard or seen something like this where individuals think the rules do not apply to them. They are the ones who deserve contempt, not the PCSOs who have to apply the rules.

I think you'll find many police officers have equal contempt for PCSO's even if they don't say so publicly, and nobody can be arrested simply for being an idiot
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think most people regard PSCO's as clueless muppet's who frequently don't know the law and as such are probably far more inclined to argue with them than they would with a normal Police Officer.

I think you're spot on

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Back in the day we had smack dealers perambulating the NLL - when there were 313's sets with loose seat squabs they could hide their wares under and "discreetly" sell on a pre-ordered basis. This was sorted thanks to CCTV evidence - (only a few sets had working CCTV - the rest were dummy ones) , and the BTP made a good effort and nailed them. On this basis - this seems a different order of things. A driver had a gun pulled on him one night by miscreant for late running - not his fault of course - so things have improved just a little bit ..

 

[DaleCooper]

No one should be defined by their job any more than they should be defined by their race, religion, hair length or clothes. PCSOs are people, there will be good, bad and indifferent among them just as there is among any other group whether they are police officers, plumbers, postmen, pilots or priests.

 

[najaB]

...and weighs 122.999999999999g when fully discharged.

Think you left of a few nines there.

 

[AM9]

I've always thought that "DANGER! 10,000 VOLTS" would be slightly more of a deterrent than "Not for customer use".

I presume that building regulations don't apply to trains, but seriously though, if the output of what looks like a domestic UK plug socket, and in an area of the train used by the general public, is not actually consistent with the specifications of a domestic UK plug socket then shouldn't it be locked away from public use not just have a sticker above it?

Anyone responsible enough to be allowed to travel by themselves should be able to understand that they must not use the socket, (the clue is in the wording on the label "Not for customer use").
Provided any voltages present on the shuttered pins of the socket are withing its rating, there is no safety issue. It is likely that the voltage is within the range that a charger can handle as a domestic mains surge, but under certain running conditions (regen has been suggested) voltages in the surge range could be sustained for longer than the domestic spec. requires. It's similar to running 12V devices in a car. Car electrics can have large DC excursions (beyond 45V, - caused by generator load dumps) that can damage devices not designed for them.
The main danger of using the sockets though is the trip hazard. The only way that the passenger could reduce this hazard is to stand by the socket thereby obstructing the doors. So such a selfish act creates a burn/fire hazard, a trip hazard and unacceptable obstruction of doorways. All for a maximum of 10-15 minutes charging on a toy that the offender couldn't live without.

 

[transmanche]

There was no sign on or around the socket indicating that it was not for public use.

Does that make it OK to use then? :roll: