Malton to Pontefract

[crispy1978]

I want to go to the model railway exhibition on 30 January. I'll be travelling from Malton.

The postcode for the venue is WF8 4QR. Google Maps tells me this is closest to Tanshelf (7 min walk), and the other two stations Baghill and Monkhill (25 mins walk). I'd rather, therefore, go to Tanshelf.

National Rail Enquiries gives me two travelling options. First is Malton-Leeds-Monkhill-Tanshelf which NRE prices at £20.50 for an off-peak day return. Second is Malton-Leeds-WakefieldKirkgate-Tanshelf but there's no price on NRE. Does this mean that would mean a combination of tickets? (£20.70 to Wakefield, £3.60 to Tanshelf - therefore more expensive)

Are there any other routes that I can consider? Especially looking at quicker alternatives in particular. For example - 10:13 Malton to York to catch 11:06 to Baghill (I'd consider the walk for the quicker train) - not sure on ticket options for that route. Probably wouldn't be done for the 14:11 going back though, so would have to look at an alternative route valid with appropriate return ticket if possible.

 

[Adam0984]

I can't see a problem with the £20.50 ticket on any of the 3 routes.

 

[Romilly]

Using the Virgin Trains East Coast journey planner, I could get the £20.50 day return for Malton-Tanshelf journeys if I asked for journeys avoiding Castleford.

 

[crispy1978]

Thanks guys - I've always been told if NRE doesn't offer it, then there's usually a problem with the route.

Having said that when I try and click on "Details" next to the unpriced route, it takes me to a 'dead' page, so not sure if there's a problem with that section of the NRE site?

 

[Paul Kelly]

This is quite a strange one - I can't see what it doesn't like about the itinerary on the fast train from Leeds to Wakefield Kirkgate. I could understand some booking engines not liking it if you go via Castleford and Wakefield, since Castleford is in Pontefract Routeing Group so you'd be exiting it and re-entering it again when you get to Tanshelf, but even that should still be perfectly allowable. Very strange.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's not yet more confusion caused by the fact that Tanshelf isn't in PONTEFRACT STATIONS is it?

 

[crispy1978]

I tweeted Northern to see what they said:

@northernrailorg Hi - looking to go Malton-Pontefract on Sat 30/1. Found RTN for £20.50. Looking at MLT-YRK-PFR going out and PFM-LDS-YRK-MLT coming home, are these all valid on this ticket? Thanks (2/2)


Hi Chris, you will be able to do this yes

So Northern seem to think it's ok. It seems like a couple of you think there might be a grey area here though?

 

[Tetchytyke]

You couldn't do Leeds-Monkhill-Tanshelf on a ticket with a destination PONTEFRACT STATIONS as Tanshelf isn't in that group, therefore is beyond the validity of the ticket.

I think the issue with going via Wakefield is that it fails the fares check- a Wakefield-Malton single is 20p more than one from Pontefract, even though the return is cheaper. In reality, I doubt Northern guards will notice or care if you go Tanshelf-Kirkgate-Leeds.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I tweeted Northern to see what they said:

@northernrailorg Hi - looking to go Malton-Pontefract on Sat 30/1. Found RTN for £20.50. Looking at MLT-YRK-PFR going out and PFM-LDS-YRK-MLT coming home, are these all valid on this ticket? Thanks (2/2)


Hi Chris, you will be able to do this yes

So Northern seem to think it's ok. It seems like a couple of you think there might be a grey area here though?

That's a different question to the one you asked in the OP about Pontefract Tanshelf (POT) So yes, that looks totally valid to me on a ticket to Pontefract Stations (in fact, it's the shortest route in both directions - assuming you go via Castleford on the return journey - so unequivocally valid). But, as Arctic Troll has said, Pontefract Tanshelf isn't a member of the Pontefract Stations fares group so it would not be valid to start from there on the return journey.

I'm still not sure why booking engines aren't allowing your original itinerary to POT. I think Arctic Troll might be on to something that there is a fares check issue, but not at the Pontefract end - since Tanshelf is a member of Pontefract routeing group (despite not being in Pontefract fares group) there is no fares check needed.

However, there could be an issue with the origin fares check. As you may know fares checks are supposed to be done using the NFM64 fares from back in 1996. But Pontefract Tanshelf had only been opened for four years then, and it seems that in NFM64 there are no fares from either Malton or York to POT!! So the fares check can't be done, and booking engines are automatically disallowing the itinerary.

Personally, I think if there are no NFM64 fares to do the fares check then the fares check should automatically pass. And I'm not saying that's definitely what's happening here, but it's my current best guess.

 

[exile]

I sometimes wonder if Kafka is in charge of ticketing - "Pontefract Tanshelf" not being a "Pontefract Station"......

 

[30907]

I sometimes wonder if Kafka is in charge of ticketing - "Pontefract Tanshelf" not being a "Pontefract Station"......

No, he would be well versed in ticketing matters and write about it. He's dead, otherwise he'd be a forum member

 

[crispy1978]

That's a different question to the one you asked in the OP about Pontefract Tanshelf (POT) So yes, that looks totally valid to me on a ticket to Pontefract Stations (in fact, it's the shortest route in both directions - assuming you go via Castleford on the return journey - so unequivocally valid). But, as Arctic Troll has said, Pontefract Tanshelf isn't a member of the Pontefract Stations fares group so it would not be valid to start from there on the return journey.

I'm still not sure why booking engines aren't allowing your original itinerary to POT. I think Arctic Troll might be on to something that there is a fares check issue, but not at the Pontefract end - since Tanshelf is a member of Pontefract routeing group (despite not being in Pontefract fares group) there is no fares check needed.

However, there could be an issue with the origin fares check. As you may know fares checks are supposed to be done using the NFM64 fares from back in 1996. But Pontefract Tanshelf had only been opened for four years then, and it seems that in NFM64 there are no fares from either Malton or York to POT!! So the fares check can't be done, and booking engines are automatically disallowing the itinerary.

Personally, I think if there are no NFM64 fares to do the fares check then the fares check should automatically pass. And I'm not saying that's definitely what's happening here, but it's my current best guess.

My apologies - realised I got Tanshelf and Baghill totally mixed up. It was only when I spotted there was a direct train from York I got a bit carried away as that will be a definite time-saver!