Maltese cross

[aar0]

Hi all,

I had long understood the Maltese cross on a ticket via London allowed travel from terminal a to terminal b, via TfL rail or bus service, as appropriate. However, last Wednesday I was quite rudely told to gtfo a bus from Paddington to Victoria, which I thought was a valid option. On complaining to TfL, I’ve been told my only route would have been the tube - which was on strike. I assume they are, but just to check, is TfL correct?

Thanks

 

[jfollows]

Maltese cross does not allow you to travel by bus, no.

Travelling in London | National Rail

Whether you’re travelling to, from, or in and around London by train, we can help you find the best routes and prices for your journey.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Travelling across London with your train ticket​

If your journey involves travelling via or across London to connect with another National Rail service, your ticket should include the cost of transfer on London Underground, DLR, Thameslink or Elizabeth line services between the relevant stations.

Your ticket will be marked with a cross ( + ) sign.

 

[Mrmt]

The Maltese cross (✠) printed on a UK train ticket means the fare includes one transfer across London between National Rail terminals.

That cross-London transfer is not limited to the Underground. You can use it on:

• London Underground (Tube)
• Elizabeth line
• Thameslink services through central London
• Docklands Light Railway (DLR) (if it forms part of the cross-London route)

However it is not on buses

 

[aar0]

Maltese cross does not allow you to travel by bus, no.

Travelling in London | National Rail

Whether you’re travelling to, from, or in and around London by train, we can help you find the best routes and prices for your journey.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

The Maltese cross (✠) printed on a UK train ticket means the fare includes one transfer across London between National Rail terminals.

That cross-London transfer is not limited to the Underground. You can use it on:

• London Underground (Tube)
• Elizabeth line
• Thameslink services through central London
• Docklands Light Railway (DLR) (if it forms part of the cross-London route)

However it is not on buses

Ah! I must have got away with it by chance every time previously! Whoops. No allowance for the tube strike? Poor bus driver, he was right and I’ve been thinking meanly of him since (though I didn’t appreciate the rudeness or shouting). Thanks both.

 

[duffield]

You could write to the Mayor's office and TfL and point out that on tube strike days that it would clearly be the right thing to do to permit bus transfers on such tickets, and ask TfL to justify any refusal (which would be very difficult!).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

ask TfL to justify any refusal (which would be very difficult!).

With the Underground on strike, buses will be expected to be very heavily loaded: so it won't be in the interest of regular bus passengers (or Londoners using buses instead of the Underground) to try to encourage anyone crossing town between railway terminals onto the buses.

Not difficult at all to justify - and essentially the same reason why there isn't automatic interavailability between nationalised LNER and nationalised EMR services in the event of disruption.

 

[duffield]

With the Underground on strike, buses will be expected to be very heavily loaded: so it won't be in the interest of regular bus passengers (or Londoners using buses instead of the Underground) to try to encourage anyone crossing town between railway terminals onto the buses.

Not difficult at all to justify - and essentially the same reason why there isn't automatic interavailability between nationalised LNER and nationalised EMR services in the event of disruption.

I'd like to see the evidence as to whether these extra passengers on a few particular sections of a few routes would make any significant difference to overcrowding. And if they did TfL could maybe shuffle around a few buses. The alternative seems to be leaving cross-London passengers in the lurch.

 

[Mrmt]

Just for information, once you have tapped into a TFL bus (either with Oyster or bank card) then you have one hour on all buses. So if you needed a few buses to get across London it would only be £1.75.
So you could tap into your final bus on 59 minutes and still travel for that one final ride.

 

[Egg Centric]

essentially the same reason why there isn't automatic interavailability between nationalised LNER and nationalised EMR services in the event of disruption.

Actually, there is now (albeit specifically for cancellations rather than the more generic 'disruption').

 

[fandroid]

Not difficult at all to justify - and essentially the same reason why there isn't automatic interavailability between nationalised LNER and nationalised EMR services in the event of disruption.

Good theory, but EMR isn't nationalsed!

 

[Belperpete]

Ah! I must have got away with it by chance every time previously! Whoops. No allowance for the tube strike? Poor bus driver, he was right and I’ve been thinking meanly of him since (though I didn’t appreciate the rudeness or shouting). Thanks both.

I suspect that previous drivers might not have looked very closely at the ticket, and just assumed you had a day travelcard. I have had these printed on standard ticket cardstock.

 

[styles]

Perhaps the ticket should somehow allow the undocking of Santander cycles which could be used to make the connection

 

[sprunt]

Do TfL get some share of the revenue from Maltese Cross tickets, and is this share reduced on tube strike days? If the answers to these are respectively yes and no, I can't see why you shouldn't be allowed on the bus with the ticket on tube strike days, since you're otherwise paying TfL for a service they aren't providing.

 

[Watershed]

Do TfL get some share of the revenue from Maltese Cross tickets

Yes. I would imagine it's also shared with Thameslink (GTR) since you can also use a Maltese Cross ticket to cross London on their services.

and is this share reduced on tube strike days?

It's a longstanding agreement dating back to the BR era, likely set at a flat rate per Maltese Cross ticket/journey. If it's anything like ORCATS from the same era, which uses a random Wednesday(?) in each timetable period to calculate the division of revenue, then it will not be adjusted to account for strikes.

Some cross-London transfer journeys would still have been possible - for example on the DLR (outside of its own strike days) and between outer London transfer points (e.g. Shepherds Bush and Ealing Broadway) where a limited service was still operating. Similarly on the Friday of the strike, services ran mostly normally from mid morning onwards.

How would any adjustment/deduction account for these factors - or indeed just a day when there's engineering works, severe disruption etc.? It's too complicated to be worthwhile, I would suggest.

If the answers to these are respectively yes and no, I can't see why you shouldn't be allowed on the bus with the ticket on tube strike days, since you're otherwise paying TfL for a service they aren't providing.

I agree. However, TfL seem to think otherwise...

 

[aar0]

Yes. I would imagine it's also shared with Thameslink (GTR) since you can also use a Maltese Cross ticket to cross London on their services.

In hindsight I should have gone Elizabeth Line to Farringdon and changed to Thameslink there, but it’s not a route I’ve regularly done before and the route planners offered either via Reading or via London - and I’d forgotten about the tube strike!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

I suspect that previous drivers might not have looked very closely at the ticket, and just assumed you had a day travelcard. I have had these printed on standard ticket cardstock.

And that’s probably where my misunderstanding has come from too, having often got a paper travel card and knowing that was valid on buses!

 

[saismee]

In hindsight I should have gone Elizabeth Line to Farringdon and changed to Thameslink there

Be glad you didn't. The overcrowding at Farringdon was bordering on dangerous. It took over 40 minutes to go from St Pancras to Liverpool Street via Farringdon for me.

 

[DelW]

In hindsight I should have gone Elizabeth Line to Farringdon and changed to Thameslink there, but it’s not a route I’ve regularly done before and the route planners offered either via Reading or via London - and I’d forgotten about the tube strike!

Just out of interest, how did you make the journey when the bus driver wouldn't accept your ticket? Did you pay on the bus, or use another route?

 

[aar0]

Just out of interest, how did you make the journey when the bus driver wouldn't accept your ticket? Did you pay on the bus, or use another route?

I showed my ticket to a subsequent bus driver (thinking I was in the right) and they let me board without question!

Be glad you didn't. The overcrowding at Farringdon was bordering on dangerous. It took over 40 minutes to go from St Pancras to Liverpool Street via Farringdon for me.

Ah - no thanks. As it was the traffic meant despite a generous hour to go from Paddington to Victoria I missed my planned train, and the subsequent one was delayed by a person on the tracks at Clapham. Southern have denied my delay repay so far!

 

[saismee]

Ah - no thanks. As it was the traffic meant despite a generous hour to go from Paddington to Victoria I missed my planned train, and the subsequent one was delayed by a person on the tracks at Clapham. Southern have denied my delay repay so far!

That'll be an odd delay repay claim. The Paddington to Victoria leg (and any legs before) wouldn't be eligible for repay due to TfL's policy, but the purely Southern leg (and any after) should be...

 

[AlterEgo]

That'll be an odd delay repay claim. The Paddington to Victoria leg (and any legs before) wouldn't be eligible for repay due to TfL's policy

Which policy? The OP has a cross London ticket here.

OP, we need your full journey details and details of your ticket. Lay them out in bullet points like so:

- Ticket: Off Peak Day Return Milton Keynes Central to Ramsgate - cost £50.00
- Train 1: Milton Keyes Central to London Euston, 5th Sep 2025, depart 1104 - actual arrival 1135

etc etc

 

[saismee]

Which policy? The OP has a cross London ticket here.

Does TfL's policy of "We do not give refunds for delays outside our control, including: Strikes" not apply on cross-London tickets? It heavily implies that it does. Happy to be corrected though as I have a journey with an hour delay still eligible for claim if so.

 

[AlterEgo]

Does TfL's policy of "We do not give refunds for delays outside our control, including: Strikes" not apply on cross-London tickets? It heavily implies that it does. Happy to be corrected though as I have a journey with an hour delay still eligible for claim if so.

But the portion of the ticket is still liable for delay repay regardless of if another TOC has to pay it.

 

[aar0]

Which policy? The OP has a cross London ticket here.

OP, we need your full journey details and details of your ticket. Lay them out in bullet points like so:

- Ticket: Off Peak Day Return Milton Keynes Central to Ramsgate - cost £50.00
- Train 1: Milton Keyes Central to London Euston, 5th Sep 2025, depart 1104 - actual arrival 1135

etc etc

Ticket - super off peak single, Swansea to Horsham, any permitted route, £122.50
Train 1 - Swansea to London Paddington, 10 Sept, departing 1422, arriving 1710, on time.
Bus to Victoria
Train 2 - London Victoria to Horsham, booked on the 1805, missed it by less than 5 minutes. 1835 was then delayed by 30 minutes due to disruption caused by a trespasser at Clapham. Original ETA 1901, actual 2001

 

[NormalPerson7]

RTT shows the delayed 1835 service arriving into Horsham at 1955, here https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y28232/2025-09-10/detailed not 2001 so I suspect you'll only be able to claim for a 30-59 minute delay.

 

[AlterEgo]

RTT shows the delayed 1835 service arriving into Horsham at 1955, here https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y28232/2025-09-10/detailed not 2001 so I suspect you'll only be able to claim for a 30-59 minute delay.

The OP cannot claim anything under delay repay. As it turns out the material delay was caused by TfL's strike in this case, and Southern cannot be on the hook for that. They were on the later train precisely because of that.

The best they can do is write in and ask nicely for goodwill compensation of 15-30 minutes given the circumstances, as that is how long the train they were on was delayed for.

 

[Haywain]

RTT shows the delayed 1835 service arriving into Horsham at 1955, here https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y28232/2025-09-10/detailed not 2001 so I suspect you'll only be able to claim for a 30-59 minute delay.

RTT shows that train arriving 29 minutes late. I'm not convinced that Southern can be on the hook for anything more than that.

 

[aar0]

RTT shows the delayed 1835 service arriving into Horsham at 1955, here https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y28232/2025-09-10/detailed not 2001 so I suspect you'll only be able to claim for a 30-59 minute delay.

Hmm. Should have checked RTT first, was going off my check ins.

The OP cannot claim anything under delay repay. As it turns out the material delay was caused by TfL's strike in this case, and Southern cannot be on the hook for that. They were on the later train precisely because of that.

The best they can do is write in and ask nicely for goodwill compensation of 15-30 minutes given the circumstances, as that is how long the train they were on was delayed for.

Had I been delayed on the tube I would still have claimed via Southern who would have then claimed from TfL? Or is that wishful thinking?

 

[aar0]

To round this out - Southern have given 50% delay repay, which while potentially wrong of them, feels right to me, having spent almost an hour unexpectedly at Victoria.

 

[Belperpete]

To round this out - Southern have given 50% delay repay, which while potentially wrong of them, feels right to me, having spent almost an hour unexpectedly at Victoria.

What did you state on the claim as your planned itinerary? I suspect that this payment is based not on the 1835 train that you actually caught due to the tube disruption, but on your original itinerary being for the 1805 train. The 1805 arrived 33 minutes late into Horsham.

 

[aar0]

What did you state on the claim as your planned itinerary? I suspect that this payment is based not on the 1835 train that you actually caught due to the tube disruption, but on your original itinerary being for the 1805 train. The 1805 arrived 33 minutes late into Horsham.

Oh that would make sense. I hadn’t realised the 1805 was delayed too. I put down my planned itinerary which included the 1805.