Making seat reservation labels more useful

[Tim R-T-C]

There is nothing worse as a casual traveller having to walk up and down a train to find one unreserved seat, only for half of the reserved seats to be unused.

I assume most unused seats are ones booked with purchase of open ticket where the traveller has decided to take another service.

I wonder then if the train companies could put a C on compulsory reserved tickets to let you know they will almost certainly be occupied, but those without are less likley to be. It might help to reduce the guesswork.

 

[SPADTrap]

People reserve seats just in case it is busy, if it turns out not to be they disregard it. The 5p plastic bag charge illustrates the best way to stop 'wasted' reservations could be to charge people for it? At least then they'd sit in their seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My view is that there should be a £2 charge for all specific seat reservations whatever the ticket type, and £1 refunded if a reservation is cancelled to encourage people (a) not to take reservations they don't need, and (b) to cash them in if they are known not to be required.

 

[CardiffKid]

How would that work given an awful lot of open return tickets that come with a seat reservation will have been bought by an employer?

Surly it would be better if the travelling public understood the rules and knew they could sit there say ten minutes after the train has left the station, on condition they give it up should the ticket holder require it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How would that work given an awful lot of open return tickets that come with a seat reservation will have been bought by an employer?

I find, overall, employers these days are much more scrupulous about not wasting money than individuals.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

My view is that there should be a £2 charge for all specific seat reservations whatever the ticket type, and £1 refunded if a reservation is cancelled to encourage people (a) not to take reservations they don't need, and (b) to cash them in if they are known not to be required.

A couple of pounds to reserve a seat for open tickets would be a good way to stop waste. I think a lot of people just accept a seat reservation when buying online because the system gives them as the default option.

In Germany it is about €8 to reserve a seat in std. (Free in 1st), at least it was on last train I booked.

Also means you could buy a reservation for a service you plan to catch when using a rover etc where at the moment you cannot just do online.

Adding charge for advances with compulsory service use seems more like a hudden charge and I don't think that would be a good idea.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't a hidden charge if reserving an actual seat becomes optional - if you don't pay, you get a train reservation.

ATW are sort-of there - you don't get a specific reservation on an Advance at all!

 

[northwichcat]

People reserve seats just in case it is busy, if it turns out not to be they disregard it. The 5p plastic bag charge illustrates the best way to stop 'wasted' reservations could be to charge people for it? At least then they'd sit in their seat.

So how will that stop missed connections causing you to not be on the same train as your seat reservation?

Also for those with flexible tickets it's entirely possible that people presume they'll be on a very busy service but due to a change in circumstances e.g. a meeting being shorter than expected, they are able to catch an earlier less busy service. Maybe there should be some way of cancelling a reservation if it's no longer required?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So how will that stop missed connections causing you to not be on the same train as your seat reservation?

Most people have not missed connections.

Also for those with flexible tickets it's entirely possible that people presume they'll be on a very busy service but due to a change in circumstances e.g. a meeting being shorter than expected, they are able to catch an earlier less busy service. Maybe there should be some way of cancelling a reservation if it's no longer required?

Agreed, with a small fee refund if you do in order to encourage it.

The other option (and this one may be a little more controversial) would be that if you reserve your ticket becomes train and seat specific, and a small fee is charged to release this if done after the event, in order to encourage the release of reservations as soon as people know they will not be used. But I think charging for reservations would have just as good an effect and is simpler.

 

[Hadders]

If I paid £332 for an Anytime return between Euston and Manchester (not that I ever would but there are people who do so) I'd be rather annoyed (to put it mildly) if I then had to pay extra to reserve a seat.

The system we have isn't ideal but realistically I don't see how it can be changed.

 

[SPADTrap]

If I paid £332 for an Anytime return between Euston and Manchester (not that I ever would but there are people who do so) I'd be rather annoyed (to put it mildly) if I then had to pay extra to reserve a seat.

The system we have isn't ideal but realistically I don't see how it can be changed.

But equally you'd be annoyed if everyone on £15 advances reserved seats but weren't there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I paid £332 for an Anytime return between Euston and Manchester (not that I ever would but there are people who do so) I'd be rather annoyed (to put it mildly) if I then had to pay extra to reserve a seat.

I'd be annoyed by paying £332 for the Anytime Return. Having done that, £4 for a pair of reservations would be neither here nor there, and the overall benefit of fewer unused reservations, thus making my flexible, unreserved use of the ticket[1] more enjoyable, would be worth the cost.

[1] The only reason to buy one, as there are usually Advances for less, often even First Advances.

 

[northwichcat]

Most people have not missed connections.

How do you know?

 

[Haydn1971]

The ticket reservation system should be separated out from the tickets, to enable season ticket holders to buy a reservation if required - I don't need a reservation going to work, but like to have one coming home, especially in the busier winter months and on Fridays. I'm currently using advance tickets as I'm only working in Manchester three days a week, my ticket purchase via EMT doesn't give me the option of which journey to reserve seats on, for me, it's a simple IT problem, solved with a national app based solution, ideally linked to on seat displays.

 

[northwichcat]

The ticket reservation system should be separated out from the tickets, to enable season ticket holders to buy a reservation if required - I don't need a reservation going to work, but like to have one coming home, especially in the busier winter months and on Fridays. I'm currently using advance tickets as I'm only working in Manchester three days a week, my ticket purchase via EMT doesn't give me the option of which journey to reserve seats on, for me, it's a simple IT problem, solved with a national app based solution, ideally linked to on seat displays.

Another issue with the online reservation system - say you to do the following on an Any Permitted return ticket

Outbound: Manchester to Leeds TPE, Leeds to York via Harrogate Northern, with BOJ at Harrogate
Return: York to Manchester TPE direct

And get reservations for the TPE legs. You'd finish up having to either:
1. Specify 'Via Harrogate' and only getting seat reservations between Manchester and Leeds in both directions.
2. Not specify 'Via Harrogate' and get a seat reservation between Manchester and York in both directions even though you'll only require the northbound reservation as far as Leeds.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do you know?

The punctuality statistics should show you that, plus the fact that people prefer direct trains so most people are not even making connections.

 

[northwichcat]

The punctuality statistics should show you that, plus the fact that people prefer direct trains so most people are not even making connections.

Punctuality stats are for arrival times at terminus stations. What proportion of people change at terminus stations?

Yes people prefer direct trains where available but there isn't a direct train between every 2 stations.

 

[westv]

Not another seat reservation thread! :roll:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Punctuality stats are for arrival times at terminus stations. What proportion of people change at terminus stations?

Quite a lot of them, I would imagine. Indeed, I suspect *most* connections occur at London Terminals.

 

[DarloRich]

There is nothing worse as a casual traveller having to walk up and down a train to find one unreserved seat, only for half of the reserved seats to be unused.

Just sit in the first one you find. No real drama - or if a peak hours Virgin out of Euston sit in the rack or doorway. I find the doorway better.

I assume most unused seats are ones booked with purchase of open ticket where the traveller has decided to take another service.

I wonder then if the train companies could put a C on compulsory reserved tickets to let you know they will almost certainly be occupied, but those without are less likley to be. It might help to reduce the guesswork.

what guesswork? is the seat occupied? Yes/No? If no sit there.

Am i missing something?

 

[northwichcat]

Quite a lot of them, I would imagine. Indeed, I suspect *most* connections occur at London Terminals.

I would have thought the majority of connections at London terminals involve an Underground transfer or walk between stations, with a transfer between stations increasing the chance of you missing a connection.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume most unused seats are ones booked with purchase of open ticket where the traveller has decided to take another service.

I expect so, which is why I favour a fee, so people don't book seats unless there is a very high chance they actually will use that train.

 

[Haydn1971]

what guesswork? is the seat occupied? Yes/No? If no sit there.



Am i missing something?

Yes, you are... On services out of London, reservations are likely to be loaded at the London end, whereas services such as CrossCountry, TransPennine and Norwich-Liverpool are much more likely to have huge lengths of the route unbooked but show reserved and require some thinking by a passenger, which if your not a regular, where is Chinley, Dewsbury, Alnwick on my journey, are these before my station... Even as a regular passenger on the 4 car 158 between Sheffield and Manchester, the reserved carriages vary, it's mostly A, which is usually towards Liverpool end, but even then, it's not always the first carriage and unlike the TPE units, there's limited outside clues other than a letter in the doorway, which then gets us into why the hell cant trains have seat numbers from which end so you can see without having to stare into the window.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many trains do have the nearest numbers marked by the doors.

 

[Haydn1971]

Many trains do have the nearest numbers marked by the doors.

Many, but not the EMT Class 158s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, that's about the easiest problem to solve

 

[Haydn1971]

Yes But we digress