Making people stand behind the yellow line for departure

[Bletchleyite]

Per this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ff-bawling-at-passengers.253442/#post-6374807
...dispatch staff now seem to be instructed not to give either tip until the entire dispatch corridor is clear. I can see why, however it seems to be causing issue at some stations to the point where the staff are getting extremely exasperated and sometimes heading towards abusive.

Can this be resolved more sensibly?

Ideas:

I think they need to crosshatch that area, I think that alone would make it clearer you shouldn't stand there. For bonus points frequent "PLEASE STAND BACK" text painted on it.

It may also be sensible to add a German style departure announcement. I'm sure Anne can be programmed to say something like "On platform 2, for the train to Manchester Piccadilly, please stand behind the yellow line now for the train to depart", ideally, as Germany did, with a very distinct tone beforehand, and very clearly. This could be triggered by platform dispatchers or in the case of self dispatch by the guard. Some people will ignore it, but many won't. Possibly also one in the manner of the German "Vorsicht bei der Einfahrt" ones (take care on arrival) to be played just before a train arrives.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Having platform staff near enough to ask/tell passengers to move rather than far away & shouting?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having platform staff near enough to ask/tell passengers to move rather than far away & shouting?

With an 11 car Pendolino being 265m long, exactly how many are you proposing having?

 

[bramling]

Per this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ff-bawling-at-passengers.253442/#post-6374807
...dispatch staff now seem to be instructed not to give either tip until the entire dispatch corridor is clear. I can see why, however it seems to be causing issue at some stations to the point where the staff are getting extremely exasperated and sometimes heading towards abusive.

Can this be resolved more sensibly?

Ideas:

I think they need to crosshatch that area, I think that alone would make it clearer you shouldn't stand there. For bonus points frequent "PLEASE STAND BACK" text painted on it.

It may also be sensible to add a German style departure announcement. I'm sure Anne can be programmed to say something like "On platform 2, for the train to Manchester Piccadilly, please stand behind the yellow line now for the train to depart", ideally, as Germany did, with a very distinct tone beforehand, and very clearly. This could be triggered by platform dispatchers or in the case of self dispatch by the guard. Some people will ignore it, but many won't. Possibly also one in the manner of the German "Vorsicht bei der Einfahrt" ones (take care on arrival) to be played just before a train arrives.

This was causing a problem at my local station before Covid, where there was a tendency at peak times for people to wait where they know doors are going to stop, often being in position before the preceding one or even two trains, and then being reluctant to move. It didn’t help that the yellow line moved quite some way inwards when tactile paving was installed, so it is now probably further in that optimal.

Not really sure what the solution is to be honest. LU seems to manage with a yellow line comparatively close to the edge - which IIRC was chosen deliberately in order to avoid creating too much of a clear space at the edge and encouraging its use as a walkway.

<sigh> Just another reason to avoid taking the train really. Of course, those used to slam doors knew not to wait too close to the edge, often through having learned that one the hard way. When one watches footage of how things were in slam-door days it’s quite sobering, especially how it was normal practice for people to be out of the train and door slammed closed before it had even stopped. Somehow it all used to tick over without anything too awful happening… Content times.

 

[Jan Mayen]

With an 11 car Pendolino being 265m long, exactly how many are you proposing having?

No idea, never despatched a Pendolino (or anything else).
However, I was at Gatwick the other day and noticed passengers being shouted at. I felt that it would have been better if the platform staff had walked to where the passengers were and asked them at normal volume. Perhaps that's been tried and it didn't work

 

[bramling]

No idea, never despatched a Pendolino (or anything else).
However, I was at Gatwick the other day and noticed passengers being shouted at. I felt that it would have been better if the platform staff had walked to where the passengers were and asked them at normal volume. Perhaps that's been tried and it didn't work

Time will be the issue with that, they will be aiming to get the train out as quickly as possible.

But if there’s going to be a “crackdown” on this, which is fair enough, passengers should be told in advance what the expectations are. Is there any evidence of this crackdown having been accompanied by posters, announcements or such like? I bet the answer is no.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if there’s going to be a “crackdown” on this, which is fair enough, passengers should be told in advance what the expectations are. Is there any evidence of this crackdown having been accompanied by posters, announcements or such like? I bet the answer is no.

It does seem like there's a need for something as earworm-y as the "three Ss" if you want people to actually change their behaviour.

Bawling at people from the other end of the platform just makes people think "what an aggressive idiot", by and large.

 

[bramling]

It does seem like there's a need for something as earworm-y as the "three Ss" if you want people to actually change their behaviour.

Bawling at people from the other end of the platform just makes people think "what an aggressive idiot", by and large.

Can only agree with this. If one is going to be loud and aggressive, it’s only decency to clarify what the expectation is beforehand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can only agree with this. If one is going to be loud and aggressive, it’s only decency to clarify what the expectation is beforehand.

"Stay safe. Stand back."?

It would be suffixed onto the above departure announcement and "non stop train" announcements, plus we could have periodic earworms like:

"The platform edge is a dangerous place, even when a train is there. If you're not boarding or leaving the train, or if it hasn't stopped yet, make sure you keep behind the yellow line all the time. Stay safe - stand back."

 

[bramling]

"Stay safe. Stand back."?

It would be suffixed onto the above departure announcement and "non stop train" announcements, plus we could have periodic earworms like:

"The platform edge is a dangerous place, even when a train is there. If you're not boarding or leaving the train, make sure you stand behind the yellow line all the time. Stay safe - stand back."

I would actually go a bit further and have a full campaign on educating users on the expectations in respect of platform/train interface, which includes boarding (and alighting) when doors are closing. Standing back from departing trains could then be included as part of that, highlighting the risks associated with the dispatch process.

As ever it’s probably not going to reach the people who really need to be reached, but at least then staff can more justifiably take a more robust line.

 

[The exile]

The following would also help:

1 Clear and consistent explanation of why. (Is it for your own safety or because you’re blocking despatchers’ sight lines.
2. Explanation of why it’s suddenly become such an issue
3. At all the places where tge tactile paving is several inches inside the yellow line, an explanation of why it is apparently safe for blind people to be x inches from the edge, but unsafe for others unless they’re x+4 inches away.
4. An explanation of why the yellow lines at some stations where line speed is slow are much further back than at others with higher line speed
5. Why it is safe for non despatching rail staff to stand in gaggle chatting on the wrong side of the line with their backs to oncoming traffic, yet paying passengers get bawled out for crossing the yellow line to get round other people.
All real life examples from the last 7 days

 

[Bletchleyite]

3. At all the places where tge tactile paving is several inches inside the yellow line, an explanation of why it is apparently safe for blind people to be x inches from the edge, but unsafe for others unless they’re x+4 inches away.

There seems to be no consistency on this - the yellow line should clearly be nearer to the edge than the tactiles, but many platforms are the other way.

I definitely think the area should be hatched with frequent STAND BACK wording. There's no reason not to make it really obvious, and all but the most thick passenger knows what yellow hatching means.

5. Why it is safe for non despatching rail staff to stand in gaggle chatting on the wrong side of the line with their backs to oncoming traffic, yet paying passengers get bawled out for crossing the yellow line to get round other people.

Yes, staff absolutely should be 100% on this unless their role requires them to be there. Which means they should always be on the correct side when not dispatching a train.

 

[The exile]

There seems to be no consistency on this - the yellow line should clearly be nearer to the edge than the tactiles, but many platforms are the other way.

It doesn't help that the tactile paving itself is often yellow ("so which yellow line am I supposed to be behind?")

 

[Pumbaa]

Get yourself down to Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Clapham Jn or Vauxhall, where the tried and tested way of doing this is having 2-3 staff constantly patrolling and enforcing the yellow line. Due to consistency, I found shouting or bad interactions to be rare, and when they did happen it was almost always some other influence which caused the ruckus.

It’s a fine balance. Clearly if the dispatch corridor is religiously enforced, it has to have appropriate station infrastructure to support it or no trains will ever move. In my experience, most get the balance right. There’s normally something behind an individual or a team/station suddenly behaving differently, usually a recent incident or crap management.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

With an 11 car Pendolino being 265m long, exactly how many are you proposing having?

That and they are in specific places to operate the RA display.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2023 ==

Yes, staff absolutely should be 100% on this unless their role requires them to be there. Which means they should always be on the correct side when not dispatching a train.

Surely for the same reason as guards are - the only place to get an unobstructed view of the PTI is from within it. No? I'm instructed to watch the train into and out of platforms, so are dispatchers as far as I'm aware.

Agree that they shouldn't be there if not required, and should be focusing on the job in hand (Crewe isn't great at this)

 

[whoosh]

Trains need to be able to make external announcements. Then a, "Stand clear behind the yellow line," announcement can be made to people on the platform, either automated with the closing doors, or manually by the driver.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Trains need to be able to make external announcements. Then a, "Stand clear behind the yellow line," announcement can be made to people on the platform, either automated with the closing doors, or manually by the driver.

I think the 777s might be able to do that, not sure on that though.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Trains need to be able to make external announcements. Then a, "Stand clear behind the yellow line," announcement can be made to people on the platform, either automated with the closing doors, or manually by the driver.

Why? All stations have Pa systems which are perfectly suited to the job. Doesn't matter where the announcement comes from, passengers will still ignore or be oblivious to them.

That and the original point was about shouting to stand back when trains are/may be approaching. No point having the announcement on the extern of the train, who would hear it?

 

[whoosh]

Why? All stations have Pa systems which are perfectly suited to the job. Doesn't matter where the announcement comes from, passengers will still ignore or be oblivious to them.

That and the original point was about shouting to stand back when trains are/may be approaching. No point having the announcement on the extern of the train, who would hear it?

People next to the train. People cycling on the platform having got off the train...

I take the point about the Original Post being about platform staff, but at unstaffed stations an external PA from the the train would be useful.

 

[stadler]

Per this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ff-bawling-at-passengers.253442/#post-6374807
...dispatch staff now seem to be instructed not to give either tip until the entire dispatch corridor is clear. I can see why, however it seems to be causing issue at some stations to the point where the staff are getting extremely exasperated and sometimes heading towards abusive.

Can this be resolved more sensibly?

Ideas:

I think they need to crosshatch that area, I think that alone would make it clearer you shouldn't stand there. For bonus points frequent "PLEASE STAND BACK" text painted on it.

It may also be sensible to add a German style departure announcement. I'm sure Anne can be programmed to say something like "On platform 2, for the train to Manchester Piccadilly, please stand behind the yellow line now for the train to depart", ideally, as Germany did, with a very distinct tone beforehand, and very clearly. This could be triggered by platform dispatchers or in the case of self dispatch by the guard. Some people will ignore it, but many won't. Possibly also one in the manner of the German "Vorsicht bei der Einfahrt" ones (take care on arrival) to be played just before a train arrives.

Up until 2018 when they stopped using the Amey system all Southern stations played this announcement:

"Please stand clear from the train at platform x. Please stand clear from the train at this platform. This train is ready to leave."

I have attached a recording of the announcement that i am talking about.

Perhaps it is time to bring back this announcement. As you say i am sure the Atos Worldline system could be set up to play something similar. This is much more pleasant than having someone shout at passengers. It could also be accompanied by a noise (i suggest the trumpet horn sound that was previously used at all Southern stations and is still used at some London Overground stations) to get passengers attention and make them listen to the announcement.