Making Mk3s 2020-proof on the cheap

[Bletchleyite]

The cheapest solution to the CET issue is just to lock out all the toilets.

Not really a workable solution for InterCity use.

 

[theageofthetra]

How will the 2020 regs affect heritage operations (on NR or on preserved lines)

 

[CosherB]

How will the 2020 regs affect heritage operations (on NR or on preserved lines)

An utter minefield. Check out the responses from the rail industry regarding CET on heritage stock. I daresay this will go on and on regarding PRM TSI ...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?root=&dir=%5cConsultation%20Documents%5cCharter

 

[Bletchleyite]

With most heritage lines being short, the toilets will probably just be locked out if they have to comply. Or another option would be to install a caravan Porta-Potti for the small number of likely users.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How bulky is the equipment both trackside and onboard for CETs?

 

[BR60062]

As already mentioned (twice?) in this thread, the Chiltern type doors cost a fortune

I see your point but its still a cheaper option than new stock for open access operators that want to join the market .

Yes, I believe talk is indeed of sliding rather than plug doors, these are said to be cheaper. The Mk3 design has the advantage of having blank space next to the doors (luggage rack/bog space) into which they can retract without blocking windows.

I like the idea of that. I am surprised that BR didn't go for this design or the sliding plug doors similar to what Ireland did in the 1980's. But on reflection though, common sense and patience was prevalant at the time the HST's and Mk3's were built. The main reason why central locking was added to the Mk3's was due to impatient people trying to board the HST when it was departing the station or opening the doors when it was still moving into the station. Which has resulted in some people falling from the train when it was moving! .

The cheapest solution to the CET issue is just to lock out all the toilets.

Do you think that is a good idea to ride on a long haul service with no toilets on them? :roll:.

 

[Yew]

I am surprised that BR didn't go for this design or the sliding plug doors similar to what Ireland did in the 1980's. But on reflection though, common sense and patience was prevalant at the time the HST's and Mk3's were built. The main reason why central locking was added to the Mk3's was due to impatient people trying to board the HST when it was departing the station or opening the doors when it was still moving into the station. Which has resulted in some people falling from the train when it was moving! .

The HST was supposed to be a cheap stop-gap measure, relying on mainly proven technology or minor upgrades of it. I'd guess power doors were included as they were common on most IC stock at the time, and BR didn't want to deal with potential issues from a new, unproven design of power-door

It's a shame Auto closers (common on the continent) could not have been included, however. I feel they would have helped dwell times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The main reason why central locking was added to the Mk3's was due to impatient people trying to board the HST when it was departing the station or opening the doors when it was still moving into the station. Which has resulted in some people falling from the train when it was moving!

Not just that, but because body flex was causing doors to open at speed, I believe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a shame Auto closers (common on the continent) could not have been included, however. I feel they would have helped dwell times.

As I mentioned (I think upthread) we missed that boat with the XP64. Imagine if all the Mk2s and later had had UIC folding autoclose slamdoors with 5km/h door blocking? Had we held our nerve they could have had.

 

[CosherB]

I see your point but its still a cheaper option than new stock for open access operators that want to join the market .

New rolling stock is not the only alternative - there are a number of options available well documented previously on this thread.

 

[Clip]

New rolling stock is not the only alternative - there are a number of options available well documented previously on this thread.

Im sorry but there simply isnt a number of options available because of the said cost of doing such things - as well documented previously in this thread.

 

[Carntyne]

The designs + plan for sorting out the various HST fleets post 2020 are fairly well progressed tbh. The first ScotRail HSTs will surely be entering works from next year.

 

[MatthewRead]

Hasn't anyone heard I thought the deadline has been extended to the 1st April 2023.
so slam doors could potentially continue until then.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Hasn't anyone heard I thought the deadline has been extended to the 1st April 2023.
so slam doors could potentially continue until then.

No I haven't heard any such thing. Care to share your source?

 

[CosherB]

Hasn't anyone heard I thought the deadline has been extended to the 1st April 2023.
so slam doors could potentially continue until then.

Did you read that pearl in a rail magazine?

 

[MatthewRead]

Did you read that pearl in a rail magazine?

Yes I did.

 

[CosherB]

Yes I did.

Source?

The only reference to 2023 that I can find is in the link below, and only applies to Mk 1 stock.

http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-regulate/health-and-safety/guidance-and-research/infrastructure-safety/mark-i-rolling-stock

 

[randyrippley]

I don't know whether you are joking - but the Mk 3 is a monocoque. What underframe would you use?

You don't need an underframe. The sectional design could be built as a series of monocoques bonded together. I believe the Mk4 is designed that way. Or could be welded to a steel floor as the 153/155 fleet are

 

[AndyNLondon]

The toilets can be dealt with. Accessible toilets are modular, there is only one required in the train, so lock out one door, replace the droplight with a stuck in piece of obscure glass, You then have one less exit, but space for an accessible toilet using the existing toilet space and one side of a vestibule.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but are the gangways between carriages usable by wheelchair users? (Width, slopes, etc.) If not, then blocking off a door with the accessible toilet is a non-starter as you would be putting the toilet in an area that's unsuitable for wheelchair users as they'd only be able to board or alight at platforms on one side of the train.