Major problems at Nottingham

[howittpie]

No trains have moved in and out of Nottingham in last 90 minutes due to signal failiure. EMT have confirmed this is due to cable theft. Some buses are running to Derby and Eadt Midlands Parkway.

 

[The Planner]

Complete loss of signalling on Trent PSB area in the incident text.

 

[MCW]

Not a good day thus far, about four hours ago there was a total loss of signalling between Nottingham and Beeston and now Trent junctions is affected. All lines are blocked, presumably with trains still In block sections.

That's EMT and some of XC buggered for today.... Apparently from what i have been told, S and T still haven't made any progress to establish what caused the problem :roll:

So to be helpful here's the info on disruptions i have.

STP to NOT services reduced to xx30 and are terminating at Leicester. EMT have lifted all ticket restrictions for today and are accepting XC tickets where viable and XC are doing the same for EMT.

LEI to NOT locals are running from Loughborough to Leicester and back again to provide service to the small stations. Matlock to notts are running weird, many have been cancelled so whether there is some form of service on this line or not i am not clear on it.

EC are accepting EMT tickets AFAIK to Grantham. I would advise you double check first though.

Lastly replacement buses, they are running from derby, Nottingham, east miss parkway, Loughborough and from Leicester. This is to cover services which are not running through Trent junc. IE STP to SHF services etc.

 

[brianthegiant]

wow
glad I decided to work from home today..
haven't heard about much theft in Trent PSB area before.
But there are a lot of battered transit vans doing the rounds here and local access to scrap yards on Lenton Lane.

 

[dvboy]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/54243.aspx#

Incident created 09/07/2013 09:04
Last updated 09/07/2013 11:49
Route affected Download map of route afected
All routes through Nottingham


TOC(s) affected CrossCountry; East Midlands Trains; Northern Rail;
Description A signalling problem is causing disruption at Nottingham.

Because of this, journeys through this station may be delayed by up to 90 minutes. These delays will continue until further notice.

No trains are calling at Nottingham.

Alternative travel options

CrossCountry

Trains between Cardiff Central / Birmingham New Street and Nottingham are unable to run between Derby / Long Eaton and Nottingham. Buses are running between Derby and Nottingham.

Passengers may use East Midlands Trains services on reasonable routes.

East Midlands Trains

The following changes will apply:

•Trains between Lincoln Central and Leicester are cancelled.
•Trains between Nottingham and Skegness are running between Grantham and Skegness only.
•Trains between Matlock and Nottingham will only run between Matlock and Derby.
•Trains between Worksop and Nottingham will run between Worksop and Bulwell.
•Trains between Liverpool Lime Street and Norwich are being diverted not calling at Alfreton, Nottingham or Grantham.
•Trains from London St Pancras International to Nottingham at 30 minutes past each hour will terminate at Leicester.
•Trains from London St Pancras International to Nottingham at 15 minutes past each hour will terminate at Derby.
•Trains from Nottingham to London St Pancras International at 2 minutes past each hour will start from Derby.
•Trains from Nottingham to London St Pancras International at 28 minutes past each hour will start from East Midlands Parkway.
•Buses are running between Nottingham and Derby, Nottingham and East Midlands Parkway and between Leicester and Loughborough.




Passengers may use:

•CrossCountry services on reasonable routes
•East Coast services between London Kings Cross and Grantham
•Nottingham Express Transit trams between Nottingham and Bulwell
•Northern Rail services on reasonable routes to and from Liverpool Lime Street





Northern Rail

Trains between Leeds and Nottingham are only running between Leeds and Alfreton. Buses are running between Alfreton and Nottingham.

Nothing running at all to Newark/Lincoln then?


edit: there's still the trains between Newark NG and Lincoln, but nothing running Newark-Nottingham.
Newark Castle hasn't seen a train since 0928 this morning.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Jeez that is a massive effort of a cable theft

 

[dvboy]

Looks like the last train to arrive at Nottingham was 2A19 0736 Matlock to Nottingham
arr 0850. Everything else after that is Cancelled or No Report on Real Time Trains.

correction: 2S04 0709 Skegness to Nottingham made it through 81 minutes late at 1041.

 

[tsr]

NR say they have restored signalling.

 

[Ploughman]

Is this a practice run for the shut down of Nottingham in the near future?

 

[edwin_m]

Is this a practice run for the shut down of Nottingham in the near future?

Certainly the people concerned would have had had a good idea of what needed doing, though getting all the buses together at short notice would be just as hard as ever.

Along with Saltley, Trent power box is highly sucsceptible to this type of problem because it doesn't have remote relay rooms, all the equipment connects back to central interlockings via vital FDM links. Thus loss of a few cables near the box can knock out a large part of the area with no chance of putting any of it under local control. Of course this was much worse in the days when Trent controlled the whole area between roughly Loughborough and Chesterfield, and the problem will go away in 11 days time...

Glad the Test Match starts tomorrow, and that I was travelling yesterday instead of today.

The scrap merchants are round the back of Dunkirk, Lenton Lane is a mixture of building supplies and top-end car dealers.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Glad the Test Match starts tomorrow, and that I was travelling yesterday instead of today.

This. Cannot begin to imagine the chaos that would have followed if this had've happened tomorrow.

 

[The Planner]

NR say they have restored signalling.

Nowt on the TRUST incident, 2000 odd minutes, 35 cancellations and 74 part cancellations and rising.

 

[tsr]

Nowt on the TRUST incident, 2000 odd minutes, 35 cancellations and 74 part cancellations and rising.

It seems trains started moving just after 1250-ish and certainly by 1310. NR then publicised the restored signalling on their Twitter feed at 1315, so I'm guessing they had a bit of confidence by then that trains were running!

 

[EM2]

Sometimes, I'm really glad to be on nights!

 

[MCW]

Update: signalling has been restored and AFAIK the diagrams are running thier normal routes as much as possible with alterations due to unit locations etc. The residual delays and effects will still be ongoing for at least three hours.

anyone travelling by EMT Especially, double check your train is running and check to see if there are any changes or if the route is being part cancelled. Also be warned that on some routes the trains will be shorter than usual and quite crowded.

Also thanks to the mod who moved my first post into here I didn't realise till way after that this topic was here! D'oh!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EMT has also said any passengers who do not want to travel today due to the disruption can still use their tickets tomorrow

 

[howittpie]

Nottingham was chaos this morning but huge credit to EMT staff who were excellant. I escaped it on a repkacement bus to Newark do they must have run some buses east eventualy made it to Yorj 100 mins late.

 

[dk1]

I caught the 15.17 Ely to Norwich which was surprisingly on time. Appeared to have been diverted via Derby & Melton Mowbray. Train was 2x158s. Near Lakenheath we passed 3x158s with another passing after Brandon. Station staff at Norwich said that no less than 6 units belonging to EMT sat around a bit earlier with no crew available.

 

[simdmuk]

Nottingham was chaos this morning but huge credit to EMT staff who were excellent.

The customer facing staff were very good,not so good as usual was Control. Lack of communication again being the problem.Info screens at Nottingham showed services from 0930 hrs as being delayed some three hours later and despite everything was cancelled ! Auto announcements for non existing services,same at East Midlands Parkway although Derby's screens were up to date funny that No wonder the paxs were confused.
At East Midlands Parkway bus loads for Derby,Sheffield were arriving with dispatch teams no idea when the next service was due to depart.
Example: Bus arrives from Nott ,Liverpool service just about to depart but no crew,Sheffield service goes straight through the station despite cdalling at Derby Sheffield, so control then tell the bus driver to continue to Derby.Before he leaves, a Notts service from St Pancras diverted to Derby, stops with no one telling anyone that this was going to Derby so an unnecessary bus journey for all(I caught one service to Derby with just six people on board).No one though about special stop orders (a fact that the dispatch team were moaning out seeing Sheffield services etc charging though the station when passengers were wanting Derby Sheffield).
At Derby trolley crews were waiting for diverted Liverpool Lime street services but no one told any staff that they had just re routed services back through Nottingham after 1300 ish.
So as you say although the ground staff did an excellent job as usual the control aspect is just to pot.
To quote from one conductor today ("gave up trying to find out from Control as they have an auto message on their phone lines stating to contact them only in an emergency").

 

[Tomnick]

Station staff at Norwich said that no less than 6 units belonging to EMT sat around a bit earlier with no crew available.

I thought that might end up being the case. We had at least two or three Up trains diverted via Melton, all I think running as four-car sets (as the rear unit hadn't been detached at Nottingham). A couple on the Down appeared to have been cancelled too, so the whole operation didn't seem very balanced to me!

 

[dk1]

I thought that might end up being the case. We had at least two or three Up trains diverted via Melton, all I think running as four-car sets (as the rear unit hadn't been detached at Nottingham). A couple on the Down appeared to have been cancelled too, so the whole operation didn't seem very balanced to me!

Can't be helped in such times. They have to go somewhere. Appears all where mucking in to get people away as best as possible.

 

[Tomnick]

That's fair enough - no criticism intended, just an observation. Apart from the first one that came straight up the Erewash though, I did wonder whether they'd take the opportunity to detach a unit at Derby.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I caught the 15.17 Ely to Norwich which was surprisingly on time. Appeared to have been diverted via Derby & Melton Mowbray. Train was 2x158s. Near Lakenheath we passed 3x158s with another passing after Brandon. Station staff at Norwich said that no less than 6 units belonging to EMT sat around a bit earlier with no crew available.

The stock for the 16.45 Nottingham to Liverpool turned up in Nottingham from Norwich as an 8 car set (4 x 158), I guess this is the one you passed near Lakenheath?

 

[dk1]

The stock for the 16.45 Nottingham to Liverpool turned up in Nottingham from Norwich as an 8 car set (4 x 158), I guess this is the one you passed near Lakenheath?

Must have been. Thought it was 6 so possibly attached another at Ely.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Must have been. Thought it was 6 so possibly attached another at Ely.

Nah, it ran via Ely North Curve. I don't think any got turned back at Ely, if they did they would have had a Nottingham crew onboard so it would have come back in service.

 

[tdg1986]

The customer facing staff were very good,not so good as usual was Control. Lack of communication again being the problem.Info screens at Nottingham showed services from 0930 hrs as being delayed some three hours later and despite everything was cancelled ! Auto announcements for non existing services,same at East Midlands Parkway although Derby's screens were up to date funny that No wonder the paxs were confused.
At East Midlands Parkway bus loads for Derby,Sheffield were arriving with dispatch teams no idea when the next service was due to depart.
Example: Bus arrives from Nott ,Liverpool service just about to depart but no crew,Sheffield service goes straight through the station despite cdalling at Derby Sheffield, so control then tell the bus driver to continue to Derby.Before he leaves, a Notts service from St Pancras diverted to Derby, stops with no one telling anyone that this was going to Derby so an unnecessary bus journey for all(I caught one service to Derby with just six people on board).No one though about special stop orders (a fact that the dispatch team were moaning out seeing Sheffield services etc charging though the station when passengers were wanting Derby Sheffield).
At Derby trolley crews were waiting for diverted Liverpool Lime street services but no one told any staff that they had just re routed services back through Nottingham after 1300 ish.
So as you say although the ground staff did an excellent job as usual the control aspect is just to pot.
To quote from one conductor today ("gave up trying to find out from Control as they have an auto message on their phone lines stating to contact them only in an emergency").

It's very easy to blame a seemingly anonymous "control" for causing all the problems but unless you've ever worked in their situation it's unlikely you'll understand the various pressures they're under and that their job is nowhere near as easy as you seem to think.

Reacting to a large incident such as this in a very short space of time and trying to get this information to those people who need it when they need it is very difficult, especially when after working out a plan of action you get other people saying "well I think you should do this instead". There will have been a reason not to stop additional trains even if it may not seem like the correct decision to those on site.

That's not to say that every decision a control room makes will be correct - nobody gets them all right and you do need to take advice and listen to experience (which don't forget does not necessarily lie with those on the ground). However it does seem all too often that blame is passed to "control".

 

[AlexS]

Not to get too far involved, but there used to be a policy whereby when the service went seriously to pot, one train an hour, formed either of HST or the 'big' 222s ran from London to Sheffield and Nottingham each calling at all stations. This at least gave everywhere a service.

Certainly last Monday when the signalling failed at St Pancras, there was no service from the northern stations to Bedford/Luton stations for over 4 hours, despite a large number of fast services running through. You can take service recovery to extremes and risk forgetting a percentage of your passengers, I think. There needs to be a balance.

 

[MCW]

Not to get too far involved, but there used to be a policy whereby when the service went seriously to pot, one train an hour, formed either of HST or the 'big' 222s ran from London to Sheffield and Nottingham each calling at all stations. This at least gave everywhere a service.

Certainly last Monday when the signalling failed at St Pancras, there was no service from the northern stations to Bedford/Luton stations for over 4 hours, despite a large number of fast services running through. You can take service recovery to extremes and risk forgetting a percentage of your passengers, I think. There needs to be a balance.

on that note, i noticed fair few ivanhoe services missing out small shacks between lesta and loughborough, so going home to an intermediate village must hae been a pain

 

[34D]

on that note, i noticed fair few ivanhoe services missing out small shacks between lesta and loughborough, so going home to an intermediate village must hae been a pain

Ain't the Ivanhoe line the (long talked about reopening of) Burton to Leicester?

 

[edwin_m]

Ain't the Ivanhoe line the (long talked about reopening of) Burton to Leicester?

The proposed service was Loughborough-Leicester-Burton-Derby - don't ask me why - so Barrow, Sileby, Syston plus Willington got Ivanhoe branding.

 

[brianthegiant]

It's very easy to blame a seemingly anonymous "control" for causing all the problems but unless you've ever worked in their situation it's unlikely you'll understand the various pressures they're under and that their job is nowhere near as easy as you seem to think.

Reacting to a large incident such as this in a very short space of time and trying to get this information to those people who need it when they need it is very difficult, especially when after working out a plan of action you get other people saying "well I think you should do this instead". There will have been a reason not to stop additional trains even if it may not seem like the correct decision to those on site.

That's not to say that every decision a control room makes will be correct - nobody gets them all right and you do need to take advice and listen to experience (which don't forget does not necessarily lie with those on the ground). However it does seem all too often that blame is passed to "control".

These are all reasonable points. My hunch is that it isn't the decision making that's the issue here but communication, again I don't think that is anyones fault, but an issue with the constraints of the systems which are in place.

Do you think there is any scope to improve the way decisions and information is transferred between control and passengers/staff? for example different technology or technology used in different ways. Or is there a need for additional staff in control rooms tasked with getting accurate information out, e.g. checking what is going out on feeds & correcting it where necessary.