Major Incident in Nottingham (13/06/2023)

[johntea]

'Serious' police incident in Nottingham city centre this morning so all trams are currently suspended

https://twitter.com/NETTram/status/1668490795379310593

Service Update 06:22. Due to ongoing major Police incidents around the city and suburbs, we have had to suspend all services. NCT buses are accepting our tickets and passes. EMR Trains are also accepting our tickets and passes between Hucknall and Beeston and Nottingham Station

 

[61653 HTAFC]

BBC News website has a short clip of the scene at Royal Centre tram stop, with tram number 220 marooned. Unable to link as my internet isn't playing ball.
Current reports: three fatalities, one arrest. Putting two and two together, it's possible vehicular terrorism- trams not directly involved by the look of things.

 

[DanNCL]

'Serious' police incident in Nottingham city centre this morning so all trams are currently suspended

https://twitter.com/NETTram/status/1668490795379310593

Sadly three people were found dead in the early hours of this morning and several roads in Nottingham are now within a police cordon as part of a murder investigation. Link to the BBC News live feed on this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-65888114

 

[duncanp]

I suppose it is better to suspend all services, however inconvenient that may be, rather than try an provide a skeleton service over part of the system, which would likely be subject to change as the situation develops.

 

[MCR247]

I suppose it is better to suspend all services, however inconvenient that may be, rather than try an provide a skeleton service over part of the system, which would likely be subject to change as the situation develops.

I think it’s more that there are multiple police cordons blocking the route in the city centre. The full service never got up and running so there won’t be enough trams on the other side of the city centre to Wilkinson St

 

[BJames]

I think it’s more that there are multiple police cordons blocking the route in the city centre. The full service never got up and running so there won’t be enough trams on the other side of the city centre to Wilkinson St

I think this is the case - I did see a movement around 12:20ish at University of Nottingham towards QMC but I wasn't even close enough to see if it was in service. The tram stop was still showing no departures by the time I got that far, so I wasn't sure if they were trialling a shuttle or just moving the tram somewhere else.

 

[duncanp]

I think it’s more that there are multiple police cordons blocking the route in the city centre. The full service never got up and running so there won’t be enough trams on the other side of the city centre to Wilkinson St

Yes, I did wonder why they couldn't have run a service from the Station to Clifton South and Toton Lane, but your explanation above makes sense.

 

[randyrippley]

news report

What we know so far after three killed and others injured in Nottingham attacks

A man has been arrested in connection with a number of incidents in the city.

www.standard.co.uk

Three dead, three injured, one arrested. Seem to have been deliberately run down by van

 

[Jozhua]

Likely the issue is related to wider mental health/drug abuse issues in Nottingham.

Unlikely to be a gang feud, due to the disparate locations and seemingly unrelated victims.

Unlikely to be terror due to the time of day.

Leaves the most likely answer, that someone who was mentally ill, addicted to drugs, or otherwise had an episode which ended in these terrible, fatal attacks on the people of Nottingham.

From my personal experience and that of others, Nottingham has a noticeably worse mental health/drug issue versus other cities and it has been allowed to fester for too long. Many are harassed and were fearful to go out before, I can only imagine this is going to be even worse.

Of course, the issues facing Nottingham are not unique and this should be a wake-up call to those in power that something needs to change, otherwise tragedies such as this will unfortunately repeat themselves.

Thankfully, no-one I directly know has been affected by this.

 

[MP33]

On BBC Radio Essex they interviewed a girl who was at Nottingham University. By was, she left last month. It reminded me of the joke on Hello Cheeky, when they said we are talking to Pancho Gonzales who survived a devasting flood in South America. He was visiting relatives in Accrington at the time.

 

[Jozhua]

The two students have been named, both tragically just 19.

The van owner we do not yet know the identity of, but yet another awful tragedy and someone taken too soon.

The suspect they are attempting to identify a motive, but this could be illusive given the seeming random-ness of the event.

Trams may begin running through the city centre tomorrow, depending if streets are re-opened by police. Today I actually rode the small section still running, which is phoenix park - Wilkinson street, as there was a shuttle running around every 10 minutes for most of the day. This morning I had to walk. Hucknall section is closed for unrelated reasons (derailment).

 

[Edsmith]

Likely the issue is related to wider mental health/drug abuse issues in Nottingham.

Unlikely to be a gang feud, due to the disparate locations and seemingly unrelated victims.

Unlikely to be terror due to the time of day.

Leaves the most likely answer, that someone who was mentally ill, addicted to drugs, or otherwise had an episode which ended in these terrible, fatal attacks on the people of Nottingham.

From my personal experience and that of others, Nottingham has a noticeably worse mental health/drug issue versus other cities and it has been allowed to fester for too long. Many are harassed and were fearful to go out before, I can only imagine this is going to be even worse.

Of course, the issues facing Nottingham are not unique and this should be a wake-up call to those in power that something needs to change, otherwise tragedies such as this will unfortunately repeat themselves.

Thankfully, no-one I directly know has been affected by this.

My daughter was at Nottingham University and she enjoyed her time there and said she always felt safe there and found the natives were generally very friendly, she was quite shocked at yesterday's events.

 

[JD2168]

The Van Driver has been named as a man in his 60s.

 

[Busaholic]

My daughter was at Nottingham University and she enjoyed her time there and said she always felt safe there and found the natives were generally very friendly, she was quite shocked at yesterday's events.

Which only goes to show that these events can happen anywhere - Hungerford in Berkshire, Dunblane and West Cumbria are places which gained unwanted notoriety from the action of evil individuals.

 

[Sm5]

Whats more tragic, is besides Nottingham, two people were murdered in Devon, and 2 in London on the same day.. but these havent made the news because of the murders in Nottingham.

looking back over the last month there has been a considerable number of deaths, mostly in younger age groups.

you could blame it on the weather, drink, drugs or anything else, But I am worried the country is becoming overly hateful and more dangerous.

 

[D365]

The Van Driver has been named as a man in his 60s.

The van owner, or the suspected perp?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Whats more tragic, is besides Nottingham, two people were murdered in Devon, and 2 in London on the same day.. but these havent made the news because of the murders in Nottingham.

looking back over the last month there has been a considerable number of deaths, mostly in younger age groups.

you could blame it on the weather, drink, drugs or anything else, But I am worried the country is becoming overly hateful and more dangerous.

While this is a political point I have long felt that one of the downsides to every Conservative government has been that there are many in that party who seem to have almost no compassion for those who find themselves in difficult circumstances. Social cohesion seems to be viewed as a luxury concept only available to us during the economic good times and even then spending public funds towards it is done begrudgingly. The longer they remain in power the more those sorts of politicians seem to come to the fore. It can hardly be a surprise that such attitudes start to rub off on wider society when they do.

 

[duncanp]

While this is a political point I have long felt that one of the downsides to every Conservative government has been that there are many in that party who seem to have almost no compassion for those who find themselves in difficult circumstances. Social cohesion seems to be viewed as a luxury concept only available to us during the economic good times and even then spending public funds towards it is done begrudgingly. The longer they remain in power the more those sorts of politicians seem to come to the fore. It can hardly be a surprise that such attitudes start to rub off on wider society when they do.

I really don't think that the tragic events in Nottingham, or the other murders in Devon and London, have got anything to do with the fact that we have a Conservative government.

The suspect in the Nottingham case is reported to have mental health issues, but until we hear more from the police, we won't know what motivated him to do what he did.

If the country is becoming overly hateful and more dangerous (and personally I would question such a sweeping statement) then it is because of the actions of individual people, and not a consequence of the actions of whoever happens to be in 10 Downing Street at the moment.

 

[edwin_m]

I really don't think that the tragic events in Nottingham, or the other murders in Devon and London, have got anything to do with the fact that we have a Conservative government.

The suspect in the Nottingham case is reported to have mental health issues, but until we hear more from the police, we won't know what motivated him to do what he did.

If the country is becoming overly hateful and more dangerous (and personally I would question such a sweeping statement) then it is because of the actions of individual people, and not a consequence of the actions of whoever happens to be in 10 Downing Street at the moment.

There's a case to be made that the run down of mental health support services makes events of this type more likely, as people who may be prone to this are less likely to be identified and treated.

 

[BJames]

I am at this University. It has been a strange, highly eventful two days. We had a vigil on University Park campus yesterday afternoon to remember the two students. I won't go over what has been broadcast in the news, although I have to admit I felt frustration at the media getting in the faces of friends, family and others and taking pictures of them crying - I know that's the nature of widely publicised events like this but it still feels wrong. The social media vacuum on Tuesday morning and early afternoon, where the vast majority of students knew that it was two of our own but without official confirmation from the University, was an incredibly stressful time for many.

The strength of the student, staff and local community coming together was really special. It is a tremendous shame that it wasn't under better circumstances.

For anyone in Nottingham or the surrounding areas who is interested, there will be a vigil at Old Market Square at 17:30 today to honour all the victims, including the third male in his 60s who has, unfortunately, received less attention thus far, because the impact of the student body was nationwide. For anyone who wishes to see the vigil that took place on our campus yesterday, this, and the speeches made by the fathers of the two students, can be seen online.

The van owner, or the suspected perp?

The person being referred to in the post you quoted is the third victim, believed to own the van which was subsequently stolen by the suspected perp. The post did not make that clear but the suspect is a 31 year old.

 

[JD2168]

The van owner, or the suspected perp?

He was the original Van Driver, the suspect then stole the Van afterwards.

 

[Sm5]

While this is a political point I have long felt that one of the downsides to every Conservative government has been that there are many in that party who seem to have almost no compassion for those who find themselves in difficult circumstances. Social cohesion seems to be viewed as a luxury concept only available to us during the economic good times and even then spending public funds towards it is done begrudgingly. The longer they remain in power the more those sorts of politicians seem to come to the fore. It can hardly be a surprise that such attitudes start to rub off on wider society when they do.

I’m not sure its a government thing.

Certainly seeing screaming car drivers showing increasing aggression on the roads, feral kids sweeping through trains, not to mention accidents involving electric bikes etc..

The sheer volumes of knife crimes reported, and the amount of media focus on murders in the country is starting to make me feel this place is no longer as safe as it used to feel.

maybe its computer games, too much time online, too much boredom, whatever it is…

People just seem to have no empathy, becoming very angry, and more aggressive at showing it… stats seem to suggest it too since a plateau in 2016.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/chartimage?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2022/40fe9be3

From here..

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Crime against households and adults using data from police recorded crime and the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[156421]

I’m not sure its a government thing.

Certainly seeing screaming car drivers showing increasing aggression on the roads, feral kids sweeping through trains, not to mention accidents involving electric bikes etc..

The sheer volumes of knife crimes reported, and the amount of media focus on murders in the country is starting to make me feel this place is no longer as safe as it used to feel.

maybe its computer games, too much time online, too much boredom, whatever it is…

People just seem to have no empathy, becoming very angry, and more aggressive at showing it… stats seem to suggest it too since a plateau in 2016.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/chartimage?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2022/40fe9be3

From here..

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Crime against households and adults using data from police recorded crime and the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

www.ons.gov.uk

Don't forget how much crime goes unreported as well

 

[Jozhua]

Remember the job of police is also to keep people off the streets who pose a risk to themselves and others. People can also be detained under the mental health act.

It is difficult to attribute an incident such as this to any specific cause. As always, there are many factors at play.

I don't think cuts to policing and community service budgets have helped with crime more generally in Nottingham, or across the UK. Knife crime is a big issue more widely. The number of people running round in balaclavas is a bit nuts too - that's something that can probably be partially attributed to Covid.

People's experiences are of course personal and subjective - evidence suggests while crime isn't going up significantly, violence & sexual offences and possession of weapons is. Nevertheless, the trend is upwards.

The only potential flipside is that the police are doing a more effective job of catching people for these offences, at least on possession of weapons, although it is hard to say. I'll have a look at some more research on the subject.