Major Incident declared as NHS computer systems infected by ransomware

[me123]

Well, I hope we've got a back-up because the internet is open to everybody, friend and enemy alike.

Of course there's a fallback. It's just horrendously inefficient and would be unable to deliver the level of care that we offer today.

There are things however that absolutely need the computers - imaging is one. X-Ray film simply hasn't been used for many years, and the more advanced imaging (CT/MRI) requires computers to generate reconstructions.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Hopefully the computers used in the rail industry (excluding TMSs) are more upto date.

It's being reported on one news site as being 99 countries affected.

Be aware if you're running Vista, extended support for that ended last month. (https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet)

Does the IT procurement for the NHS get done nationally or does each individual NHS trust deal with its own IT procurement?

I upgraded my older computer to 8.1 last year (was getting increasing numbers of blue screens - the RAM was dying), it was running 7

 

[yorksrob]

Of course there's a fallback. It's just horrendously inefficient and would be unable to deliver the level of care that we offer today.

There are things however that absolutely need the computers - imaging is one. X-Ray film simply hasn't been used for many years, and the more advanced imaging (CT/MRI) requires computers to generate reconstructions.

I'm not questioning the need for computers. Just the need for them all to be linked up to every other computer on the planet.

 

[me123]

Comes in very handy for communicating with neurosurgical, cardiothoracic, plastics, burns, vascular, major trauma and other services that can't practically be delivered on every hospital site. When the neurosurgeons are fifty miles away, the best way for them to make a decision is to look at the imaging rather than rely on a verbal report. That requires an internet connection if it is to be efficient (it's several thousand times faster than burning it to a CD and putting the CD in a taxi). All the computers in the hospital are on a network, and they all benefit from internet access which gives clinicians access to important and useful information (up to date research etc).

The internet has helped deliver unbelievable advances in care.

 

[Howardh]

Hopefully the computers used in the rail industry (excluding TMSs) are more upto date.

It's being reported on one news site as being 99 countries affected.

Be aware if you're running Vista, extended support for that ended last month. (https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet)

Does the IT procurement for the NHS get done nationally or does each individual NHS trust deal with its own IT procurement?

I upgraded my older computer to 8.1 last year (was getting increasing numbers of blue screens - the RAM was dying), it was running 7

It's about time this nonsense of ending support ended. My docs is running XP (the best system IMO!) - if something's going and still works why force change of the OS because it's getting on? These systems should be supported for at least 25 years, if you produce an OS and sell it, then you should darned well look after it.

Just suppose someone went to the local Citroen garage with a '99 Saxo "oh, sorry guv, they stopped repairing them after 2013.....you will have to change to a DX...."

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm not questioning the need for computers. Just the need for them all to be linked up to every other computer on the planet.

The irony of finding this written on a message board!

 

[najaB]

It's about time this nonsense of ending support ended. My docs is running XP (the best system IMO!) - if something's going and still works why force change of the OS because it's getting on? These systems should be supported for at least 25 years, if you produce an OS and sell it, then you should darned well look after it.

If that was the case, we'd all still be using Windows 95 as there would be zero commercial sense in developing newer versions since the old one would continue to be a financial millstone for a quarter century.

 

[GusB]

It's about time this nonsense of ending support ended. My docs is running XP (the best system IMO!) - if something's going and still works why force change of the OS because it's getting on? These systems should be supported for at least 25 years, if you produce an OS and sell it, then you should darned well look after it.

Just suppose someone went to the local Citroen garage with a '99 Saxo "oh, sorry guv, they stopped repairing them after 2013.....you will have to change to a DX...."

With a car, the issue isn't going to be lack of know-how (I would hope), but sooner or later sourcing parts will become more difficult.

 

[as1981]

But surely this attack would probably have come from a compromised email attachment so it is probably a user that is ultimately to blame even though the criminals should not be doing this anyway. Plus if it was a compromised attachment the emails are usually (for me at least) easy to spot as it's usually advertised as a .pdf or .doc attachment when it's a program within a zip file.

Annoyingly very few attacks require no user intervention and as such if people were trained correctly then these sort of things may not happen. Just because computers are easier to use than ever it doesn't mean that no training is required or proper IT policy employed.

I'm an IT admin and we regularly remind our users to be careful about attachments, and of the relevant policies, but we still get users opening problematic attachments.

 

[najaB]

I'm an IT admin and we regularly remind our users to be careful about attachments, and of the relevant policies, but we still get users opening problematic attachments.

Scary true story from work. We had an IT admin call up a couple of months ago and say that his organisation had been attacked by ransomware, and he needed an antivirus remediation to get the files back. Told him that's not what antivirus does, he needs to restore from backup.

He gets all indignant and says that's ridiculous, our product is rubbish, etc. Turns out he only enabled the AV on the server and turned off backups six months ago.

Not all IT admins are created equal...

 

[furnessvale]

The irony of finding this written on a message board!

Where no one will have a life changing operation cancelled if it is hacked?

Some internet connections are playthings, who cares if they are hacked.

Some are essential and must be protected.

Many are there without good reason because some computer nerd says so!

 

[Dave1987]

This is precisely why the completely connected utopia some dream of is utterly scary for me. There are some things that computers should not be in control of.

 

[A Challenge]

Apparently (source Any Questions, BBC R4) our nuclear submarines also run XP! This is worrying, as its not even got the 6,000+ computers augment, there aren't that many are there, and it is a lot more serious if someone put ransomware on it then there may be the situation where are nuclear submarines are unable to fire when needed not because of Corbyn but because of ransomware, maybe set by the country launches the bombs at us, as we wouldn't be able to sort anything out in time at least.

There is a patch for XP, 2003, Vista and maybe others to stop this happening again if anyone run them (source the same)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not worrying, because nuclear submarines are not connected to the public Internet.

 

[ninja-lewis]

It's about time this nonsense of ending support ended. My docs is running XP (the best system IMO!) - if something's going and still works why force change of the OS because it's getting on? These systems should be supported for at least 25 years, if you produce an OS and sell it, then you should darned well look after it.

Just suppose someone went to the local Citroen garage with a '99 Saxo "oh, sorry guv, they stopped repairing them after 2013.....you will have to change to a DX...."

Because they don't work! Newer versions of Windows have been fundamentally redesigned to be more secure in a way that cannot be achieved by patching earlier versions.

Using your 25 year period, you would expect Microsoft to still be maintaining Windows 3.1.

Your car analogy fails on multiple points:
a) the garage won't repair your car for free (Microsoft however do provide bespoke support agreements for major users)
b) the garage probably won't be using genuine OEM parts
c) the garage is not creating anything new - simply replacing like with like.:roll:

 

[Crossover]

I suspect a lot of ATM's run XP where they are newer (seen others before running much older versions) - the ones at Wakefield Westgate have shown XP loading screens at times. I suspect a number of TVM's and other railway systems (departure board screens) are similar

As has been mentioned, upgrading an entire organisation to a new OS is not a trivial task (although that isn't an excuse to be keeping on top of it as much as possible)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Mention was made that there were just five NHS trusts now that still had problems to resolve. Which are these?

 

[najaB]

I suspect a lot of ATM's run XP where they are newer (seen others before running much older versions) - the ones at Wakefield Westgate have shown XP loading screens at times. I suspect a number of TVM's and other railway systems (departure board screens) are similar.

They do indeed, but typically it's not the full OS but a special stripped down version intended for single-purpose devices.

 

[Dave1987]

Will Hunt or Rudd resign? This happened on their watch.

 

[DarloRich]

Interestingly the home secretary has been all over the TV and radio telling people the NHS should keep their equipment upto date.

Might they be the same politicians who cut budgets and forced outsourcing of things like NHS IT? Surely not. Could they be the same politicians who knowing, well in advance of support withdrawal, failed to fund a system upgrade? I wont have it.

 

[me123]

Despite what's happened, That Useless Hunt has failed to say a single word publicly about the event yet despite being given the opportunity to do so. I suspect that Theresa May will give him a public commendation any time now.

 

[furnessvale]

Interestingly the home secretary has been all over the TV and radio telling people the NHS should keep their equipment upto date.

Might they be the same politicians who cut budgets and forced outsourcing of things like NHS IT? Surely not. Could they be the same politicians who knowing, well in advance of support withdrawal, failed to fund a system upgrade? I wont have it.

Did the politicians really know such detail?

I have read that there was a £10 billions upgrade that was stopped by politicians because it was getting nowhere. Perhaps that coloured politicians opinions of IT "experts"?

 

[me123]

Did the politicians really know such detail?

If he didn't know about this, then surely he should have known about it?

We can add it to the list of reasons why That Useless Hunt should be fired. The list is getting quite big now.

 

[DarloRich]

Did the politicians really know such detail?

I have read that there was a £10 billions upgrade that was stopped by politicians because it was getting nowhere. Perhaps that coloured politicians opinions of IT "experts"?

it was stopped because it was out of control, had a very poor specification, was badly managed and very poorly contracted. However that was a new national computer system designed to automate NHS records rather than a software upgrade. Private Eye has been vocal on the shambles of this procurement.

See Guardian:

Abandoned NHS IT system has cost £10bn so far

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn

The outdated nature of the operating software should have been on a risk register somewhere with a replacement cycle in line with the widely published stopping of support dates. The government knew 2 years ago this was an issue when they stopped paying microsoft for extra support and then failed to deal with the issue:

The Government Digital Service will not extend its £5.5m deal with Microsoft to extend support for Windows XP, leaving government computers that still run on the obsolete operating system at risk from hackers.

( Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/technol...en-to-hackers-as-paid-windows-xp-support-ends)

I know that post brexit we have had enough of experts but the fault lies with the invisible Hunt, the shifty Rudd and their Tory chums and their policy of cuts. They knew, did nothing and now try to blame the victims of their cuts.

 

[Steveman]

I imagine Marcus Hutchins now wished he'd never intervened as he may have to vanish pretty quick from his parents back bedroom as a price is no doubt on his head.

 

[najaB]

The outdated nature of the operating software should have been on a risk register somewhere with a replacement cycle in line with the widely published stopping of support dates. The government knew 2 years ago this was an issue when they stopped paying microsoft for extra support and then failed to deal with the issue...

More to the point the vulnerability that was exploited had been made public by Microsoft back in March. Why hadn't steps been taken to limit the possible impact?

 

[DarloRich]

More to the point the vulnerability that was exploited had been made public by Microsoft back in March. Why hadn't steps been taken to limit the possible impact?

perhaps Mr Hunt or Ms Rudd will explain....................

 

[Groningen]

With that NHS pledge bus (350 million for the NHS), this the Brexit people did not mean money for ICT.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will Hunt or Rudd resign? This happened on their watch.

Did you note the large number number of countries that have been affected by this ransomware. Are you proposing to name the politicians in those other countries on whose "watch" this criminality occurred on?

 

[NSEFAN]

I imagine Marcus Hutchins now wished he'd never intervened as he may have to vanish pretty quick from his parents back bedroom as a price is no doubt on his head.

Why? Has his head been encrypted and someone needs to pay in Bitcoins to unscramble it?

Seriously though, people like that break malicious attacks on networks on a regular basis. Who would be stupid enough to attack someone like that?