maidenhead z1-6 travelcard

[ess]

is that ticket valid to windsor?
is it valid to change at windsor on the way to staines?
or twickenham?

thanks

 

[yorkie]

It's surely got to be!

I will look into it.

 

[ess]

thanks yorkie - the travelcard element is confusing the question to me (rather than a point to point ticket). just a thought - is that ticket (which is a monthly season from maidenhead to z-16) also valid via reading for the same destinations?

the reading route is really confusing me with the routeing guide. reading is further away than the slough routeing point and the start of the journey is going away from london rather than towards - but you'd only have to take 2 trains if you went via reading (rather than 4 trains and a walk between stations in windsor).

(hope that all makes sense)

 

[t0ffeeman]

Was thinking about moving to Maidenhead a while back (1993?)when I was working in Richmond. Kept asking Maidenhead ticket office about all the ticket permutations to get to work. I couldn't see why Maidenhead to Z4 wasn't valid via Windsor, whereas Maidenhead to Richmond was(which was dearer). Was told Z4 would only get me to Southall. Perhaps times & fares logic have changed since...

 

[yorkie]

I'm told that an out-boundary Travelcard is effectively the same as a ticket to the boundary, plus and an in-boundary Travelcard. This makes sense. I'm not aware of any other lines of argument.

A perfectly valid route between Maidenhead and Feltham is via Windsor. This is the shortest route, so has to be valid.

I conclude that Maidenhead to Zones 1-6 Travelcard is indisputably valid via Windsor, and arguably valid via Reading (on the basis that Maidenhead-Feltham has a permitted route via Reading). Booking engines agree with my analysis. However I would not advise leaving the barriers at Reading, nor attempting to undertake the journey via Reading without a printout. For travel via Windsor, I can't imagine anyone would object to that, but if they do, refuse to pay anything (if they insist on issuing a UPFN then write to IRPS to appeal immediately, with a copy to FGW/SWT/Passenger Focus/London Travelwatch) and let us know.

 

[Mushtimushta]

A Maidenhead Day Travelcard is not valid for travel via Windsor Ctl/Riverside. Even a Windsor Ctl - London Zones 1-6 ticket can't be used via Riverside. The same principle applies to a Windsor Riverside - London Zones 1-6 ticket not being valid via Central.
If you want to travel this way, you'd be obliged to buy an additional ticket to cover the off-route element (Slough - Feltham via Windsor).

 

[yorkie]

A Maidenhead Day Travelcard is not valid for travel via Windsor Ctl/Riverside.

Do you have a source for that?

Even a Windsor Ctl - London Zones 1-6 ticket can't be used via Riverside.
The same principle applies to a Windsor Riverside - London Zones 1-6 ticket not being valid via Central.

But that's not the same thing.

It does appear that if you get a ticket from a named station, your only valid routes are those that start from that named station, e.g. a ticket from Bicester North can't start with a walk from Bicester Town - although that does ask the question of why they have a negative easement for that, but nevermind.

If you want to travel this way, you'd be obliged to buy an additional ticket to cover the off-route element (Slough - Feltham via Windsor).

On what basis is it "off route"?

The shortest route to Feltham (the Z6 boundary) is via Windsor. Indeed if you have a point-to-point Maidenhead to Feltham ticket, the cheapest routeing is via Windsor!

Windsor CAN be used as an interchange.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/station_maps.html

If this wasn't a valid interchange, then why would ATOC advertise it?

I advise the OP to book online and bring a printout. If anyone asks you to pay extra, refuse, obtain a UPFN if they insist, and appeal it.

It's got to be valid - there is no other logical conclusion.

 

[MikeWh]

Is it possible that the only valid route(s) to the boundary are those taken by direct trains, the shortest route and others under 3 miles further than the shortest route. Taking an extreme example, would you expect a Reading to Z1-6 travelcard to be valid via Guildford and Redhill then up to Coulsdon South? Or continuing on from Redhill to Tonbridge then up to Knockholt?

 

[yorkie]

Is it possible that the only valid route(s) to the boundary are those taken by direct trains, the shortest route and others under 3 miles further than the shortest route. Taking an extreme example, would you expect a Reading to Z1-6 travelcard to be valid via Guildford and Redhill then up to Coulsdon South? Or continuing on from Redhill to Tonbridge then up to Knockholt?

Coulsdon South
Apparently it is valid via Redhill. I didn't expect it to be, but it's only 1 mile longer than the shortest route.

Knockholt
I don't think that's valid. It does sound extreme, and I checked the mileage and it's about 20 miles too long! Booking engines won't allow it, I believe they're right.

The booking engines are interpreting it in the way I would expect.

It is indeed possible only direct trains & shortest route (within 3 miles) rules apply. Mapped routes may not apply, there is no guidance either way to say if mapped routes apply or not. Therefore I would not advise looking for mapped routes unless there is some evidence to suggest they can be used.

 

[MikeWh]

Ah, I see what you're doing here. You're taking a random boundary station and deciding whether the route to that station is valid. That wasn't quite what I was trying to say. I'm wondering whether the valid routes to the boundary are the shortest route to any point on the boundary plus any slightly longer ones. Hence (taking the OPs situation) Maidenhead to West Drayton is clearly the shortest route to the boundary, while via Slough, Windsor and Staines to Feltham is almost certainly more than 3 miles further.

 

[ess]

Taking this back a step, if it was a season from Maidenhead to London Terminals, where would it be valid to? (I see maps that show valid routes to Kensington Olympia but I can't see how there are rail services to get there from Routes from Maidenhead via Slough)

 

[barrykas]

Taking this back a step, if it was a season from Maidenhead to London Terminals, where would it be valid to? (I see maps that show valid routes to Kensington Olympia but I can't see how there are rail services to get there from Routes from Maidenhead via Slough)

Let's see:

Maidenhead has Reading and Slough as Routeing Points.

To determine the "appropriate" RP(s), we compare Standard Class Single fares from each to London with that from Maidenhead to London.

Thus:

Maidenhead - London Terminals Anytime Day Single is £9.80.

Reading - London Terminals Anytime Day Single is £13.60 rte Staines, £18.00 rte Any Permitted. Therefore Reading is NOT an appropriate routeing point for a journey from Maidenhead to London. (Stating the bleedin' obvious there. - Ed)

Slough - London Terminals Anytime Day Single is £7.40. Therefore Slough IS an appropriate routeing point for a journey from Maidenhead to London Terminals.

Permitted routes from Slough to London Group can be found on Map RG, which permits Slough to Paddington direct.

Slough to Clapham Junction (via Kensington Olympia) is also on the map, but validity would be somewhat dubious as neither station is part of the London routeing group, nor the London Terminals ticketing group. (And I don't THINK there are any direct services at the moment, or are Southern providing the token service at the moment?).

Going back to the OP's original question, here's what "The Manual" has to say on the subject of Day Travelcards:

Day Travelcards - Available in both 'Anytime' and 'Off-Peak' versions for travel 'In-boundary' in selected zonal combinations and 'Out-boundary', where available, to London Zones 1-6 only. Day Travelcards are valid on the date shown on the ticket throughout the zones shown on the ticket, and for any journey wholly within the zones that starts before 0430 the following day. 'Out-boundary' Day Travelcards additionally include one return journey from the origin station to Boundary Zone 6.

Whilst the "Fares Finder" does show a "route Windsor" option for a ticket from Boundary Zone 6 - Maidenhead (at a significant premium over the Any Permitted fares), no such option is given for Maidenhead - All Zones, so I would surmise that such a ticket would ONLY be valid on services heading into Paddington.

Cheers,

Barry