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M-tickets

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cactustwirly

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Just used my first ever M-ticket on EMT, actually I really like them.
Saves me having to faff around buying tickets at the station, I can walk in and just board a train.

But reading comments on this forum, why do people hate them so much?
 
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radamfi

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29 Oct 2009
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Just used my first ever M-ticket on EMT, actually I really like them.
Saves me having to faff around buying tickets at the station, I can walk in and just board a train.

But reading comments on this forum, why do people hate them so much?

The British implementation means that they are more restrictive than paper tickets. However, mobile tickets in other countries are as flexible, if not more flexible, than their paper equivalents.
 

button_boxer

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Just used my first ever M-ticket on EMT, actually I really like them.
Saves me having to faff around buying tickets at the station, I can walk in and just board a train.

But reading comments on this forum, why do people hate them so much?

When everything works they’re fine, I think most of the problems people have with them are what happens when things go wrong - if you get re-routed by another TOC or your service is cancelled and you need to try and get a refund etc. And also the fact that if you have a paper ticket you can’t get kicked off the train because your phone has a flat battery.
 

radamfi

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When everything works they’re fine, I think most of the problems people have with them are what happens when things go wrong - if you get re-routed by another TOC or your service is cancelled and you need to try and get a refund etc. And also the fact that if you have a paper ticket you can’t get kicked off the train because your phone has a flat battery.

In theory, refunds and exchanges *should* be easier as there is no need to post a paper ticket back.
 

Bantamzen

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Just used my first ever M-ticket on EMT, actually I really like them.
Saves me having to faff around buying tickets at the station, I can walk in and just board a train.

But reading comments on this forum, why do people hate them so much?

The short answer is change. Some people are uncomfortable with any kind of change, let alone one like moving from paper tickets to electronic / mobile ones, even though in this case there is no requirement (as yet) to use them. The airline industry in this aspect is moving ahead of rail, with many airlines now using online booking, online check-ins & mobile apps for boarding passes as standard. Some even charge if the online options are not used.

Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that the rail industry should instantly follow suit (goodness knows I'd get electronically lynched for suggesting this ;)), but I don't see any problem with them moving forward in encouraging those willing to use electronic & mobile ticketing solutions. The technology is moving at a pace, and most if not all of the problems often raised by those not so keen on them are usually easily dealt with, the most common being battery running out. However it would be far more helpful if the DfT led the way on this with National Rail, brining out a single standard for these, so that they & the TOCs could develop solutions that would be standardised & instantly recognisable to all passengers accustomed to electronic ticketing. A single smartcard option would also help get a nationwide rollout underway, all but dispensing of the need for paper tickets, except for those without access to the other technologies.
 

Cdd89

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M-Tickets are also catnip for poorly trained gateline staff, as they are frequently used for advances and the standard display lists a terminal station / suggested routing. So if you purchased a standard ticket, you have to switch to the previous page to demonstrate "London Terminals" and hope to be believed. Also, a lot of gatelines are not fully equipped to accept them, instead having just a small number of gates set up for this (Marylebone is an example), which is the source of confusion/delays (I've seen people trying to tap their phone on the oyster pads!).

By the way, I notice TTL (for one) has become increasingly aggressive in trying to encourage uptake of M-Tickets. Now, M-Tickets are the default but you can "add an option" (how generous!) to collect a paper ticket. Then you have to click (for a second time) to cancel the M-Ticket and switch to a paper ticket, which if you forget to do before collecting your ticket means you are out of luck unless you can wait (potentially) 5-10 minutes. Does anyone know what the motivation is in pressuring this so heavily? Does it cost them a few pennies to issue paper tickets for pickup or something?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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7 Oct 2017
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M-Tickets are also catnip for poorly trained gateline staff, as they are frequently used for advances and the standard display lists a terminal station / suggested routing. So if you purchased a standard ticket, you have to switch to the previous page to demonstrate "London Terminals" and hope to be believed. Also, a lot of gatelines are not fully equipped to accept them, instead having just a small number of gates set up for this (Marylebone is an example), which is the source of confusion/delays (I've seen people trying to tap their phone on the oyster pads!).

By the way, I notice TTL (for one) has become increasingly aggressive in trying to encourage uptake of M-Tickets. Now, M-Tickets are the default but you can "add an option" (how generous!) to collect a paper ticket. Then you have to click (for a second time) to cancel the M-Ticket and switch to a paper ticket, which if you forget to do before collecting your ticket means you are out of luck unless you can wait (potentially) 5-10 minutes. Does anyone know what the motivation is in pressuring this so heavily? Does it cost them a few pennies to issue paper tickets for pickup or something?
There is a cost to inserting bookings into the ToD system, and there is a cost associated with every ticket actually picked up. This cost is significantly higher if the passenger has an issue with the machines and picks up the ticket from a booking office clerk, and almost certainly wipes out any profit margin.

I understand there is equally a cost to issuing recognised e/m-tickets, but it is much lower.
 

button_boxer

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The airline industry in this aspect is moving ahead of rail, with many airlines now using online booking, online check-ins & mobile apps for boarding passes as standard. Some even charge if the online options are not used.

The fundamental difference is that with airlines the "ticket" is a record in a computer database and the booking reference, boarding card, etc. are just pointers to the underlying database record - everywhere where it matters for security purposes, the person checking the pass has a real-time link to the database to validate that the pass presented refers to a valid ticket in the DB. You can (and I often do) carry both paper and mobile versions of the same boarding pass, and it's perfectly safe for the airline to simply email you a PDF/passbook file which you can print out as many times as you like or load onto several different devices.

For trains the ticket is the actual piece of paper, so m-ticketing on trains has to be based around locked down apps written to ensure you can't load the same ticket onto more than one device at the same time, and if you want to move it from device A to device B then it has to be confirmed as removed from A before it can be loaded onto B. I'd be all for e- and m-tickets if it were more like the airline model with a central database that checking staff can use in real time, but that requires reliable mobile data coverage on 100% of the railway.
 

Bletchleyite

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For trains the ticket is the actual piece of paper, so m-ticketing on trains has to be based around locked down apps written to ensure you can't load the same ticket onto more than one device at the same time, and if you want to move it from device A to device B then it has to be confirmed as removed from A before it can be loaded onto B. I'd be all for e- and m-tickets if it were more like the airline model with a central database that checking staff can use in real time, but that requires reliable mobile data coverage on 100% of the railway.

It doesn't necessarily, and VTWC e-tickets already work that way.
 

Bantamzen

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The fundamental difference is that with airlines the "ticket" is a record in a computer database and the booking reference, boarding card, etc. are just pointers to the underlying database record - everywhere where it matters for security purposes, the person checking the pass has a real-time link to the database to validate that the pass presented refers to a valid ticket in the DB. You can (and I often do) carry both paper and mobile versions of the same boarding pass, and it's perfectly safe for the airline to simply email you a PDF/passbook file which you can print out as many times as you like or load onto several different devices.

For trains the ticket is the actual piece of paper, so m-ticketing on trains has to be based around locked down apps written to ensure you can't load the same ticket onto more than one device at the same time, and if you want to move it from device A to device B then it has to be confirmed as removed from A before it can be loaded onto B. I'd be all for e- and m-tickets if it were more like the airline model with a central database that checking staff can use in real time, but that requires reliable mobile data coverage on 100% of the railway.

In terms of coverage, even stations with little or no mobile coverage (which can't be too many places in the UK anymore), stations could relatively easily be hooked up with net-based 3/4G and/or WiFi hot spots linked to wired connections. So its really just a case of making the connectivity available through infrastructural improvements. Then there would be little reason not to be able to better apply the model of e/m-tickets linked to database entries.
 

JP

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1 Dec 2011
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52
I'd normally like electronic tickets. But now I've got an advance ticket I'd like to change and it seems that that is difficult to do.

You think the more modern product would be more modern and be able to deal with changes. A paper ticket would've been less hassle and could be changed online.
 

js1000

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14 Jun 2014
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1,022
Just used my first ever M-ticket on EMT, actually I really like them.
Saves me having to faff around buying tickets at the station, I can walk in and just board a train.

But reading comments on this forum, why do people hate them so much?
Anything that puts onus on the customer to pay annoys me. I think many people are of the same opinion.

"Buy tickets on YOUR phone to save us money", self-serve checkouts, HMRC forcing people to answer 100 security questions on the Government Gateway just to get a tax rebate when they should just send a cheque out.

Hate it. The whole thing has gone too far.
 
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