M&S broken mirror horror

[Railjet]

This article just about sums up the H&S/taking-responsibility-for-your-own-actions baloney for me, not least because it's a news story on the home page of BBC News! Of course I'm sorry for the injury to the child (I'm sure no-one isn't), but I'm also concerned as to the possible outcome.

What do you think?

a) the woman should sue M&S for damages (look at the face and the angry pointing to the poor boy's face);

b) M&S should sue the woman because her child broke the mirror (the woman has effectively admitted this);

c) a 5-yard "exclusion zone" for children should be introduced around mirrors in public places by H&S;

d) the woman should be prosecuted for neglecting her son allowing him to break the mirror;

e) all mirrors should be banned from M&S.

Multiple answers allowed, and I'm sure you have some better suggestions.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm not sure how M&S were to know that it was loose, do they want ppl to go round checking every fitting every hour and writing a report on them? She should probably keep an eye on her kid more too, but then again, where there's blame, there's a claim, and sstupid people may be stupid, but there's lawyers for them.

 

[Dai.]

B and D.

In my opinion, you should be looking after what falls from your womb, if she had been making sure he was safe then it wouldn't have happened. Everyone knows children and glass don't mix.

 

[deltic]

I'm not sure I understand your point, the child touches the mirror and it falls on him. While there is only one side of the story told here its difficult to envisage that a child could deliberately pull a mirror off the wall. One would expect fittings and fixtures to be securely attached. I would hope no-one needs to sue anyone and M&S provides its usual £50 voucher and apology and everyone is happy

 

[ralphchadkirk]

M&S have a duty of care to people in their shop that it is reasonably maintained.
Res ipsa loquiter would apply here - it is blatantly obvious that mirrors do not fall off walls when someone touches them unless there has been a breach, and there is no other obvious reason for it.

So, sadly or not, they could sue for breach of duty of care and claim damages for the injury.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If the mother wasn't keeping 100% attention on him, how does she know he hadn't played with a wall attachment etc beforehand?

 

[Dai.]

M&S have a duty of care to people in their shop that it is reasonably maintained.
Res ipsa loquiter would apply here - it is blatantly obvious that mirrors do not fall off walls when someone touches them unless there has been a breach, and there is no other obvious reason for it.

So, sadly or not, they could sue for breach of duty of care and claim damages for the injury.

People don't touch mirrors though do they? If you do you're using them wrong. And as mentioned in a post above mine, how does she know he wasn't playing with the mirror? Mirrors are just attached normally with a string and a nail and that usually withstands someone of my size, moving and shaking it.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If the mother wasn't keeping 100% attention on him, how does she know he hadn't played with a wall attachment etc beforehand?

Where does it say in the article she wasn't paying attention? From her quote it sounds like she was. Either way, it's up for them to prove on a balance of probabilities what happened.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People don't touch mirrors though do they? If you do you're using them wrong. And as mentioned in a post above mine, how does she know he wasn't playing with the mirror? Mirrors are just attached normally with a string and a nail and that usually withstands someone of my size, moving and shaking it.

If I touch my mirror it doesn't fall on me, meaning I need plastic surgery. Mirrors in shops will (or should) be held on securely to stop people smashing or running off with them which makes it even more likely that there was a breach.

 

[Mojo]

What do you mean people don't touch mirrors? Have you tried to get all those fingerprints off them?!

 

[me123]

As said before, M&S have a duty of care to their customers. Customers should be able to shop in store without needing re-constructive facial surgery. But she now needs to prove that there was a breach of this duty, and that this breach caused the accident. I would hope that the mounted mirrors are regularly checked. If so, was it checked regularly enough? When was the last check? Was it carried out properly? Even if it wasn't attached securely, if M&S have records that it was checked within a reasonable time-frame (and they may have in store CCTV to verify this), then it's hard to prove that they've breached their duty. Of course, if it's not been checked for a year or more, then that's a different situation.

However, M&S have a nice comeback. Assuming they were not remiss in their duties, she has a duty of care to the child, if she wasn't concentrating she's breached this duty and this has been what's caused the harm. Again, the in store CCTV would help with this.

Whilst I have nothing but sympathy for the child, there's no proof that M&S are responsible. Indeed, there's not enough information there to tell us anything; all it's doing at the moment is smearing M&S.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure how M&S were to know that it was loose, do they want ppl to go round checking every fitting every hour and writing a report on them?

I have a feeling that you're going to start shouting at my post. Health and Safety, although it's universally hated in the media, does have a significant and very important role. This is one of the reasons why.

Now, whilst checking the mirrors every hour seems excessive, perhaps a daily check would be reasonable. And records should be in place so that the person who checks the mirrors is accountable for their work.

 

[Railjet]

On another note, does so little happen in Wales that a story like this gets such a high billing?

On the BBC Wales news page it's the second story!

 

[90019]

I have a feeling that you're going to start shouting at my post. Health and Safety, although it's universally hated in the media, does have a significant and very important role. This is one of the reasons why.

Health and safety is fine, the problem comes about when it's used to cover people's backs from ambulance chasers.

 

[Dai.]

On another note, does so little happen in Wales that a story like this gets such a high billing?

On the BBC Wales news page it's the second story!

Not a lot happens here.. Lol.

 

[EM2]

People don't touch mirrors though do they? If you do you're using them wrong. And as mentioned in a post above mine, how does she know he wasn't playing with the mirror? Mirrors are just attached normally with a string and a nail and that usually withstands someone of my size, moving and shaking it.

In my experience in clothing retail, wall mirrors are securely fixed with screws, and checked daily as part of a general site 'walk about', where you are actively checking for faults and defects.
This lad is four. He is inquisitive. Many kids are fascinated by their reflection. He is not going to have the strength to pull a mirror of a wall, even if it is unsecurely fixed.
M&S at fault here, is my feeling.

 

[9K43]

M&S have a duty of care to people in their shop that it is reasonably maintained.
Res ipsa loquiter would apply here - it is blatantly obvious that mirrors do not fall off walls when someone touches them unless there has been a breach, and there is no other obvious reason for it.

So, sadly or not, they could sue for breach of duty of care and claim damages for the injury.

I totally agree with the above. I did 6 years as H and Safety Rep for the RMT with ASLEF workmate and we went all over the north of England inspecting the workplace, to ensure that our members could walk through tunnels and not fall down manholes, cos somebody had left the lids off.
The company has a duty of care to its workforce to ensure accidents do not happen.
If this mirror fell off the wall then it clear that M and S do not inspect such places to ensure that they provide a safe working environment for thier employees and customers.
The only way to companies have safe environments is to take them to court and fine them huge sums of money.
I have myself fallen down a man hole at Conelly Station near Skipton whilst on an engineering train.
As a result I had 10 stitches in my right shin and 3 months off work.
It was a common incident that the Per Way removed man hole lids and traincrews sufferd as a result.
There are no street lamps in Standage Tunnel but loads of open drains, and darkness as thick as a bag.
Guess what, managment did not seem to be bothered by this at all.

 

[deltic1989]

this is one of those stories where we are only ever likley to see one side. in this case there are too many variables to even begin to unravel whats happened here without both sides of the story. For starters we only have the womans word for it that she was watching hers son, which she will say in the media for fear of social services turning up.
Now i agree it is shocking that a 4 year old boy has been hurt in this manner but we have to look at the behavior of the lad before we start screaming health and safety or duty of care failure at the top of our lungs. maybe he has wandered off from his mum and started tugging and pulling at the mirror or playing with the fitting, as children of that age have no sense of danger this could be a likely course of events. Another point to make is that if the child was being properly supervised he would not have touched the mirror in the first place as my old mam used to say "you look with your eyes not your hands". But on the flip side the fitting could have been insercure. or not fit for purpose. i'm not trying to promote argument here just play devils advocate we don't know the entire facts here so it would be very difficult to judge either party in this case.

 

[Clip]

I totally agree with the above. I did 6 years as H and Safety Rep for the RMT with ASLEF workmate and we went all over the north of England inspecting the workplace, to ensure that our members could walk through tunnels and not fall down manholes, cos somebody had left the lids off.

Though you will appreciate that whilst everything was fine during your check something may have happened since then in the tunnel and someone may have left the lid off a manhole cover at some other time..

 

[9K43]

Under the H and Safety Act, Workers can inspect the workplace by giving the employer reasonable notice in writing to inspect the workplace.
In Janaury of each year we gave management a list of locations that we were going to inspect on a 3 monthly basis, for the year.
If I saw one lid off in a tunnel I would not enter or wander about inside as there would be other lidless manholes.
That was my personal risk assessment, as I do not want to sit in an hospital casualty with a gaping would on my shin again.
Most of our Saturday night turns were on engineering trains in tunnels a miles in length with only my bardic hand lamp for company, with perhaps only a 100 yards of the tunnel illuminated at the worksite.
Some of the drains could be very deep and full of mud or water just waiting to drown the unwary.

 

[SS4]

this is one of those stories where we are only ever likley to see one side. in this case there are too many variables to even begin to unravel whats happened here without both sides of the story. For starters we only have the womans word for it that she was watching hers son, which she will say in the media for fear of social services turning up.
Now i agree it is shocking that a 4 year old boy has been hurt in this manner but we have to look at the behavior of the lad before we start screaming health and safety or duty of care failure at the top of our lungs. maybe he has wandered off from his mum and started tugging and pulling at the mirror or playing with the fitting, as children of that age have no sense of danger this could be a likely course of events. Another point to make is that if the child was being properly supervised he would not have touched the mirror in the first place as my old mam used to say "you look with your eyes not your hands". But on the flip side the fitting could have been insercure. or not fit for purpose. i'm not trying to promote argument here just play devils advocate we don't know the entire facts here so it would be very difficult to judge either party in this case.

I concur, in addition human memory is selective whether by design or accident. This is the kind of story that the media loves and I expected better from the BBC.

The courts will decide I'm sure

 

[Hydro]

This is the kind of story that the media loves and I expected better from the BBC.

I use the BBC news website as my primary news source, and I've noticed that they tend to populate the pages with some real crap when there's not a lot on. Normally along the lines of "PRESSURE GROUP ADVOCATES IT'S OWN CLAIMS" or "OBSCURE AMERICAN ACTRESS DIES AT 98". Some of the articles that sneak through can be very poorly written as well.

 

[Dai.]

I use the BBC news website as my primary news source, and I've noticed that they tend to populate the pages with some real crap when there's not a lot on. Normally along the lines of "PRESSURE GROUP ADVOCATES IT'S OWN CLAIMS" or "OBSCURE AMERICAN ACTRESS DIES AT 98". Some of the articles that sneak through can be very poorly written as well.

I used to use the BBC News website frequently, but then I realised they are very rarely informed so I stopped visiting/using their website.

 

[Geezertronic]

As mentioned by a previous poster, hopefully the CCTV will prove either way if the mirror was indeed "just touched" or whether some force was used by the little 4 year old

 

[Deerfold]

Not a lot happens here.. Lol.

You should try Derbyshire...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-12498291

 

[Dai.]

You should try Derbyshire...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-12498291

Wales has been out trumped by Derbyshire. Bet the owner is embarrassed they lost them!

 

[Railjet]

Well, the BBC has to cut costs fairly drastically.

It could cut out these gems of non-journalism, for a start.

 

[SS4]

Well, the BBC has to cut costs fairly drastically.

It could cut out these gems of non-journalism, for a start.

Given the intelligence of most of the British public that would be the peak of journalism.

 

[me123]

Well, the BBC has to cut costs fairly drastically.

It could cut out these gems of non-journalism, for a start.

I think it likes to publish those stories just to show that it is interested in the local communities. Sadly, what it doesn't realise is that interesting things don't happen everywhere all the time. That's why you get some utterly stupid news stories that are usually only front page news for the local rag mags on a slow news week.

Thing is, if they didn't publish any stories from the Highlands and Isles (say) for a couple of days, then someone would kick up a fuss about a bias in their reporting. A load of carp, but it's the problem they face all the time.

 

[Clip]

Local BeeB news is terrible really overall from the places i have watched it..

BUT Kaddy Lee-Preston doing the weather makes up for it al in the south east

 

[Deerfold]

Another slow news day...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12526271

 

[deltic1989]

Another slow news day...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12526271

They were probably trying to highlight what fuel acually costs per litre before fuel duty and VAT and all that gubbins is added.

I did see another picture like that once where a BP sign had been changed to read......... Unleaded ARM........ Diesel LEG, that made me lol.