Luton to Winchester and back on Saturday 30th October

[lightbulb]

Evening all,

I'm planning to travel from Luton to Winchester and back on Saturday 30th October, using EMR between Luton and St Pancras, Thameslink St Pancras to London Bridge, SouthEastern to Waterloo East, then SWR from Waterloo to Winchester, and back the same way. My intended itinerary is:

LUT 1125
STP 1151
STP 1202
LBG 1217
LBG 1225
WAE 1229
WAT 1235
WIN 1332

WIN 1721
WAT 1821
WAE 1837
LBG 1841
LBG 1846
STP 1900
STP 1915
LUT 1940

I've tried searching for advance singles without success, and note that the SWR website specifically states that these are not available on Saturday 30th or Sunday 31st October. Does anyone know why this particular weekend should be restricted thus? However, assuming that this remains the case, I could instead use a Super Off Peak Return, but note that the ticket restriction is BD, which states that I may not travel on trains timed to arrive London Terminals after 04:29 and before 14:01. Looking at the "unpublished restrictions" for journey planner use, I see that the ticket is

Not valid to depart​

LUTON​

0430–1317​

on THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN GN​

but no mention is made of EMR. Does this therefore mean that EMR trains are not included in the general restriction? If so, am I correct to assume that the cross-London section of the journey, which usually may be made by Underground or Rail as desired, is not affected by the general restriction, or would I have to travel by Underground only? In other words, if a ticket inspector were to check my ticket on a Thameslink train between STP and LBG that had come from Luton, would I be need to be able to prove that I had in fact used EMR between LUT and STP?

 

[Gloster]

Six minutes Waterloo East to the main station looks awfully tight, even if you get in the correct part of the train at London Bridge. Are these officially supplied times?

 

[lightbulb]

Six minutes Waterloo East to the main station looks awfully tight, even if you get in the correct part of the train at London Bridge. Are these officially supplied times?

No, they're times that I can manage if everything is to time. I've done the walk from WAE to WAT in three minutes. As far as I know, there is an overall minimum journey time between STP and WAT, based on an underground journey. I'm basing this on using a Super Off Peak ticket (as advances aren't available), so there wouldn't be a problem if I had to take a later train from WAT.

 

[bb21]

Reading both the wordy and unpublished restrictions on this fare, clearly restrictions are not intended to apply to EMR services, as St Pancras is not in the list at all. Might be an oversight, but as things stand seems valid to me.

 

[Watershed]

Evening all,

I'm planning to travel from Luton to Winchester and back on Saturday 30th October, using EMR between Luton and St Pancras, Thameslink St Pancras to London Bridge, SouthEastern to Waterloo East, then SWR from Waterloo to Winchester, and back the same way. My intended itinerary is:

LUT 1125
STP 1151
STP 1202
LBG 1217
LBG 1225
WAE 1229
WAT 1235
WIN 1332

WIN 1721
WAT 1821
WAE 1837
LBG 1841
LBG 1846
STP 1900
STP 1915
LUT 1940

I've tried searching for advance singles without success, and note that the SWR website specifically states that these are not available on Saturday 30th or Sunday 31st October. Does anyone know why this particular weekend should be restricted thus? However, assuming that this remains the case, I could instead use a Super Off Peak Return, but note that the ticket restriction is BD, which states that I may not travel on trains timed to arrive London Terminals after 04:29 and before 14:01. Looking at the "unpublished restrictions" for journey planner use, I see that the ticket is

Not valid to depart​

LUTON​

0430–1317​

on THAMESLINK AND GT NORTHERN GN​

but no mention is made of EMR. Does this therefore mean that EMR trains are not included in the general restriction? If so, am I correct to assume that the cross-London section of the journey, which usually may be made by Underground or Rail as desired, is not affected by the general restriction, or would I have to travel by Underground only? In other words, if a ticket inspector were to check my ticket on a Thameslink train between STP and LBG that had come from Luton, would I be need to be able to prove that I had in fact used EMR between LUT and STP?

To be honest, I can't see why you'd undertake a cross-London NR transfer with such tight timings (especially in the southbound direction) when the Underground involves fewer changes, will likely be a lot faster and is included in the cost of your ticket.

But back to your original question - the wording of the restrictions would not permit you to arrive into St Pancras before 14:00, it being a London Terminal. So if you purely bought your ticket at a TVM or ticket office and went based off the link printed on your ticket (which would send you to nre.co.uk/BD) - then no, you couldn't undertake the itinerary you're proposing.

However if a journey planner will offer you the Super Off-Peak ticket in conjunction with that itinerary, you are perfectly entitled to book and travel in accordance with it. It seems very unlikely that staff on areas of the network other than SWR would think that there are any restrictions at all on a Super Off-Peak ticket on a Saturday. As long as you travel in line with the intended restrictions for the SWR portion of your journey, I wouldn't foresee any difficulties.

By far the bigger issue is likely to be that, by posting here, you'll have brought the issue to the attention of 'relevant people' meaning that this may be 'fixed' very soon

 

[Surreytraveller]

Could always walk Blackfriars to Waterloo to save changing at St Pancras, London Bridge and Waterloo East?

 

[lightbulb]

Thanks for your replies. Although the Underground will be faster, I'd rather avoid it. I have a ENTCS bus pass, so could use buses between STP and WAT, if the Super Off Peak Return is not valid via rail between STP and WAE. Of course, I'd rather travel on Advance tickets, whether between LUT and WIN, or just from WAT to WIN. Does anyone have any idea why these are being advertised as specifically being unavailable on the weekend of 30th and 31st October?

 

[Gloster]

The line is closed between Eastleigh and Southampton with through trains diverted via Guildford-Havant ans a revised service Waterloo-Eastleigh. Whether this has anything to do with it I know not.

 

[infobleep]

The line is closed between Eastleigh and Southampton with through trains diverted via Guildford-Havant and a revised service Waterloo-Eastleigh. Whether this has anything to do with it I know not.

I imagine it does. Interestingly I'm looking at travelling from Guildford to Norwich one Saturday when there are engineering works. They are offering advances, even though on the Greater Angelia side there is a replacement bus for part of the journey.

Perhaps some TOCs don't mind selling advances when there are engineering works and others dislike it.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Could always walk Blackfriars to Waterloo to save changing at St Pancras, London Bridge and Waterloo East?

Thanks for your replies. Although the Underground will be faster, I'd rather avoid it. I have a ENTCS bus pass, so could use buses between STP and WAT, if the Super Off Peak Return is not valid via rail between STP and WAE. Of course, I'd rather travel on Advance tickets, whether between LUT and WIN, or just from WAT to WIN. Does anyone have any idea why these are being advertised as specifically being unavailable on the weekend of 30th and 31st October?

There's no direct bus StP to Waterloo these days; but if you went on T/Link as far as Blackfriars, then there is a direct bus from there to Waterloo if you didn't want to walk it; this might be quicker than staying on board to London Bridge [assuming it was a T/L from St P which went that way anyway; half of them don't] and changing to go "back" to Waterloo E.