Luton - Portsmouth - Lymington

[MrCub]

Hello there. I've just gone from lurker to poster! Anyway, I wonder if someone could tell me if it is permitted to travel on an Off Peak Day Return from Luton to Lymington Pier via Portsmouth? National Rail suggests this is fine but I don't want any unpleasant discussions on the train. It also suggests a fare of approx £24. Could someone confirm?

I would buy an Off Peak Day Return from Luton to Lymington, using an NSE card, travelling on a weekday after 10am. I would travel to East Croydon and change for a Southern service to Portsmouth. Once finished with my business there, take a train to Lymington before returning by the most direct/ suitable / direct route.

Finally, are there any restrictions with the return journey (it doesn't really matter what time I return).

Thanks in advance for any replies

 

[Oracle]

I am fascinated to know if changing at Portsmouth is possible as against at Fratton or Havant?

 

[clagmonster]

A cheap day return Luton-Lymington Pier is £24.55 with a Network Railcard. Outward travel is valid on any train after 09:30, return travel is valid on any train.
Luton is a related station to Bedford, Watford Jn and West Hampstead.
A Bedford-Lymington cheap day return is £25.10, therefore Bedford is not an appropriate routing point.
A Watford Jn-Lymington cheap day return is £27.90, therefore Watford Jn is not an appropriate routing point.
A W Hampstead-Lymington cheap day return is £23.70, therefore W Hapstead is an appropriate routing point.

Lymington Pier is a related station to Southampton and Weymouth.
A Luton-Southampton cheap day return is £22.50, therefore Southampton is an appropriate routing point.
A Luton-Weymouth cheap day return is £35.80, therefore Weymouth is not an appropriate routing point.

West Hampstead-Southampton has routing permissions London, CW+LB, TS+WX.

CW+LB gives:
West Hampstead-Blackfriers-Herne Hill-Tulse Hill-Croydon-Three Bridges-(Lewes optional)-Brighton-Havant-Portsmouth-Southampton
West Hampstead-Blackfriers-London ridge-Tulse Hill-Croydon-Three Bridges-(Lewes optional)-Brighton-Havant-Portsmouth-Southampton
West Hampstead-Blackfriers-London Bridge-Forest Gate-Croydon-Three Bridges-(Lewes optional)-Brighton-Havant-Portsmouth-Southampton

TS+WX gives
West Hampstead-Willesden Jn-Richmond-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton
West Hampstead-Highbury-Stratford-Liverpool St-Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton
West Hampstead-Highbury-Stratford-Barking-Fenchurch St-Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton
West Hampstead-Gospel Oak-Barking-Fenchurch St-Waterloo-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton

West Hampstead-London has routing permissions LB and TS
TS contains the routes to London described in TS+WX

LB contains
West Hampstead-St Pancras-Thameslink Core

London-Southampton has routing permissions CW+LB, CW+PD, CW+PD+SC, CW+SC, MW+WR, MW+WX, WX

CW+LB has already been described.

CW+PD gives:
Waterloo/Victoria-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-(via Woking or Oxshott & Effingham Jn) Guildford-Havant-Portsmouth-Southampton

CW+PD+SC gives:
Various (most, if not all permutations) suburban routes to Epsom, then Leatherhead-Effingham Jn-Guildford-as per CW+PD

CW+SC gives
Various suburban routes to Epsom (not out of Waterloo, however)-Epsom-Dorking-Horsham-Pulborough-Arundel-Ford-Havant-Portsmouth-Southampton

MW+WR gives
Paddington-Reading-Basingstoke-Southampton

MW+WX gives
Waterloo/Victoria-Clapham Jn-Reading-Basingstoke-Southampton
Waterloo/Victoria-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Basingstoke-Salisbury-Southampton

WX gives
Waterloo/Victoria-Clapham Jn-Wimbledon-Basingstoke-Southampton

So yes, Mr Cub, your route is indeed valid.

Oracle, doubling back between Fratton and Portsmouth is allowed, as Fratton is included in the Portsmouth group. Use of the avoiding curve is also allowed because Cosham is included in the Portsmouth group as well.

 

[Oracle]

Cheers CM! I have done enough trips to/from Swanwick and Southampton via Havant & Portsmouth Direct and via Havant, Hove and Gatwick in the past. The Southern service usually means the avoiding line but I have also had to change at Fratton and Hilsea before. I was unsure whether going to Portsmouth & SS say was allowed as Havant is a perfectly-acceptable change, since not all trains stop at Hilsea or used not to!

 

[MrCub]

Thank you. That is very good news indeed and I might print out your reply and take it with me just in case. Your help is really appreciated.

 

[clagmonster]

What would be much better than printing off my reply would be to print off pages from the National Routing Guide. This is at http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide.asp
There are instructions provided, and you can of course follow my reply to aid explanation.
To print pages, go to 'information' at the top of the routing guide window. I would suggest that you need the following:
the pages on the list of stations with have Luton and Lymington on them.
The page showing the routing permissions from West Hampstesd to Southampton.
The relevent maps (in the case CW and LB).
If you have any trouble, ask and one of us will help, I'm sure. I feel that when taking print outs just in case, it is important to have at least a rough understanding of how it all works should you need to argue your case with a guard/TTI.

 

[MrCub]

Hi again

Apologies in advance if this seems a really stupid question but I've been reading through the replies (very helpful - thank you) and looking on the Routeing guide (what a confusing thing) and I'm really not fully au fait with why exactly it is a permitted route.

While I probably wont have my ticket checked at all, I do need to know what to say in straightforward terms should there be any questions.

Could I humbly as for the reasons why I can take this route but in language that I might understand? Once I have that, I then intend to take some time to 'work backwards' to get to grips with the terminology and rules/restrictions.

I *really* appreciate this help; and I plan to do this journey on Wednesday or Thursday of this week and I am looking forward to my day out very much!



Mr Cub

 

[clagmonster]

What I would do, if questioned:
Firstly, tell the guard/TTI which route you are taking.
If he still doesn't accept the ticket, tell him that it is valid according to the national routing guide, as published on the ATOC (association of train operating companies)website, and that his/her company is a member of said association.
If he still doesn't accept it, start going into detail with the routing guide, using print outs to illustrate your point. This is pretty much as per the description I posted above. If you let us know which parts you are unsure of, then we may be able to help further. It may be that other members would deal with the matter differently.