I am very sceptical about the value of the Lumo service and particularly that on the WCML. Lumo is owned by FirstGroup who also own a 70% stake in Avanti. Given the upcoming ill-conceived nationalisation of the latter, what incentive is there to sustain the Avanti services to the standard required? Moreover, with the infrastructure and services all becoming part of this GBR construct, Lumo will continue as a private venture getting a heavily subsidised ride on the national network whilst offering a non-conformist service to what we would generally expect on long distance trains (luggage restrictions and no First Class for example). As such, it will be an enduring risk to the quality of the 'proper' services on the WCML.
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Lumo (West Coast) - passenger experiences
- Thread starter lrbvoyager
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I used the service today, from Carlisle to Preston. It was about half full. We left on time, and despite a very slow approach through Lancaster ( behind the TPE Glasgow Manchester Airport service, I guess ). Despite that, we still arrived about five minutes early. This meant a 15-minute dwell time at Preston for those going further. The seat was comfy, the ride quality fine. The at seat service appeared to be popular! I did notice quite a lot got on at Preston.
Kite159
Veteran Member
My prediction on loadings will be more similar to Grand Central than Lumo (East Coast), busier on the section between London & Preston than at the northern end of the network. Do they have any areas of unreserved seating or is it like the 803s on the East Coast where you really want to get a seat reservation as there is only a tiny number of seats blocked from being reserved?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There's about half a coach if I recall. There are also walk up off peak fares unlike the east coast - what they're competing with is very different from LNER - it's both Avanti and WMT, the latter selling a lot of cheap walk ups.
Avanti staff are dispatching at Euston, self dispatch at all other locations
They actually have a good deal of unreservable seating, 30 in fact.
Kite159
Veteran Member
That's good to know
jamiestuart314
Member
Absolutely in my view, you can sit in them for more than 10 minutes and not have back ache. Even the older style seats are miles better than the Transcals on the Pendolinos!
lrbvoyager
Member
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I could have swore that the service at Carlisle going south bound today was dispatched by station staff, additionally the ambassador was the one who released the doors and closed them. I though it was meant to be DOO?
Avanti staff play no part in the dispatch procedure of Lumo services aside from that previously mentioned at London Euston
lrbvoyager
Member
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I’m just telling you what I saw.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It is DOO. If it's anything like East Coast the ambassadors key on like OBSs and key off when they're ready for the train to depart.
Mod note - just a reminder that this thread is to discuss passenger experience on Lumo West Coast services. DIscussion about the method of operation is off-topic for this thread, discussion about the method of operation and staffing arrangements should be made in a separate thread in the appropriate section.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or to Milton Keynes!
What does a passenger do in that instance, surely the railway as a whole has an obligation to get you to your destination?
In the first instance the person should speak to staff (either at the station or using social media such as X/Twitter) , if you don't get an adequate response from them you can purchase another ticket and seek reimbursement for the additional costs
Hedge Fund
Member
I use Avanti to get from Carlisle to Euston every week, or every other week, depending, and I thought I would give Lumo a go for one trip (last week).
The bad:
Decor inside of the carriage seemed quite dated compared to the Avanti Pendolinos.
The windows were all streaked with a rusty red substance or coating that looked like it was peeling off.
There was no 'Lumo Eats' trolley on the train - Announced it wouldn't be available.
The journey took 20 mins more than Avanti (but I knew that when I booked)
It only reached a maximum of 110mph (Why so slow?)
Worse than the above was that I suddenly realised that if there is a cancelation or a major delay with my Lumo, or more specifically, the last one out of Euston at 16:36 then I'm totally screwed. Can't get home. At least when there is a delay or cancellation with Avanti I can just jump on an earlier one or a slightly later one, no questions asked, as there are so many running that route daily. I do this regularly. If I see issues on the WCML, I go to the station early and jump on the first Avanti that arrives.
The good:
The carriage was larger and more airy than a Pendolino. Big windows were nice.
The toilets were more roomy than a Pendolino, and they didn't stink anywhere near as bad as an Avanti train.
It was £15 cheaper than Avanti for the return trip.
All in all, I think I may stick to using Avanti, sadly.
For a £15 saving for the return trip, it simply isn't worth the longer journey times, the more inconvenient and infrequent trains per day (only 4 Lumo per day vs 28 Avanti), and the risk of not being able to simply grab an the next one in half an hour (or earlier) if there is an issue.
Bit of a shame. Was really looking forward to having an alternative, but I guess I should have realised all of the above if I read into it more.
The bad:
Decor inside of the carriage seemed quite dated compared to the Avanti Pendolinos.
The windows were all streaked with a rusty red substance or coating that looked like it was peeling off.
There was no 'Lumo Eats' trolley on the train - Announced it wouldn't be available.
The journey took 20 mins more than Avanti (but I knew that when I booked)
It only reached a maximum of 110mph (Why so slow?)
Worse than the above was that I suddenly realised that if there is a cancelation or a major delay with my Lumo, or more specifically, the last one out of Euston at 16:36 then I'm totally screwed. Can't get home. At least when there is a delay or cancellation with Avanti I can just jump on an earlier one or a slightly later one, no questions asked, as there are so many running that route daily. I do this regularly. If I see issues on the WCML, I go to the station early and jump on the first Avanti that arrives.
The good:
The carriage was larger and more airy than a Pendolino. Big windows were nice.
The toilets were more roomy than a Pendolino, and they didn't stink anywhere near as bad as an Avanti train.
It was £15 cheaper than Avanti for the return trip.
All in all, I think I may stick to using Avanti, sadly.
For a £15 saving for the return trip, it simply isn't worth the longer journey times, the more inconvenient and infrequent trains per day (only 4 Lumo per day vs 28 Avanti), and the risk of not being able to simply grab an the next one in half an hour (or earlier) if there is an issue.
Bit of a shame. Was really looking forward to having an alternative, but I guess I should have realised all of the above if I read into it more.
Last edited:
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Where did you take your measurements? There should be some sections above 110 south of Crewe (various bits of 115, 120 and 125).
Hedge Fund
Member
Had the GPS running between Penrith and Preston-ish. Should have left it on for the whole journey by the looks of it!
voyagerdude220
Established Member
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- 13 Oct 2005
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- 4,246
I travelled on Lumo for the first time a few weeks ago.
Good:
Nice comfortable seats. (I was sat in one of the driving vehicles but can't remember if it was coach A or G)
Big windows compared with Pendolinos, felt far less claustrophobic.
It was nice only stopping at Crewe (I travelled from Preston to Nuneaton).
Bad:
Main issue was lack of catering. After left Preston, the person who made the post-departure announcement stated catering would be available after Crewe.
I found the Shop at the other end of the train closed. Asked the only visible member of Staff I encountered throughout the journey and he said catering would only be available once he'd checked tickets. Yet whilst walking back towards my seat in the very front carriage, an announcement stated the Shop was open. A fellow passenger went back and again she said it was still closed. Several other passengers I spoke to by the Shop asked me if I'd encountered a trolley, which I hadn't.
Good:
Nice comfortable seats. (I was sat in one of the driving vehicles but can't remember if it was coach A or G)
Big windows compared with Pendolinos, felt far less claustrophobic.
It was nice only stopping at Crewe (I travelled from Preston to Nuneaton).
Bad:
Main issue was lack of catering. After left Preston, the person who made the post-departure announcement stated catering would be available after Crewe.
I found the Shop at the other end of the train closed. Asked the only visible member of Staff I encountered throughout the journey and he said catering would only be available once he'd checked tickets. Yet whilst walking back towards my seat in the very front carriage, an announcement stated the Shop was open. A fellow passenger went back and again she said it was still closed. Several other passengers I spoke to by the Shop asked me if I'd encountered a trolley, which I hadn't.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Yes, currently the speed limits that far are North are basically (it's more complicated in reality) Pendolino and not Pendolino speeds, with the not Pendolino speeds not exceeding 110mph.
Both the Lumo 222s and TPE 397s/802s that run on that section can theoretically go 125mph but no one has (paid to) set up higher limits for these sections
The parts on the Southern part of the line were done for the Everos (805s and 807s) Avanti used to replace the 221s and free up some Pendolinos on Liverpool and Birmingham services to run more trains, since they can't tilt they had to find some sections it's suitable to raise the speed limit in order to save time.
It's good that the West Coast is getting genuine fares competition (rather than the East Coast where we have lots of companies chasing the same AP model).
It's been interesting seeing them speeding up and down the WCML over the past couple of months.
I've always been a privatisation sceptic but I hope they do well !
I travelled Preston to Milton Keynes. One issue I noticed was the seat reservations were showing all seats available but most seats will have been reserved.
There is only a few unreserved seats on each set.
Set a was a bit grubby, some sets have refurb seats and some not.
There is only a few unreserved seats on each set.
Set a was a bit grubby, some sets have refurb seats and some not.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
All sets have some seats replaced with FISA LEAN - only the former first class areas. The Standard seats have been retained.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not even sure they bothered moving the displays in the former first class? Does anyone know for sure?
Like the TfW Mk4s which still display former reservations this really does look very sloppy. If they weren't going to use them I don't get why they didn't just put sticky backed plastic over the top. It's reminiscent of ex-Paris buses in Tirana (Albania) still showing the last destination they showed when they worked in Paris with a piece of A4 in the windscreen showing the real one and no effort to even stick something over the top to hide it.
VT 390
Established Member
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- 1,729
I did not have a proper look but from what I could see it looks like the reservation displays do line up with seats in the former first class carriages.
This is an interesting one too. I was under the impression that the buffet bar was permanently closed and it was trolley only (unfortunately not available on your service seemingly) so I'm wondering what's happened for them to even mention it's existence?