Lumo Stirling timetable

[trainmania100]

Atoc code LT is grand union trains, according to their website under the previous application section it says their services to sterling are being run by Lumo.
So I guess anything with LT is lumo on behalf of GUT?

Then when the fawley workings happen they'll probably have LT too as the code

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Grand union sold the rights to first group who are running the trains via their lumo brand, so its not on "behalf" of grand union

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The code is LF.

Have been examining these diagrams and they are certainly pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for a passenger service, and on train messaging is going to be absolutely key here to avoid customers doing silly things like trying to open doors.

It's quite remarkable to see for a Class 1 passenger service. In particular, 1S01 appears to have a 9 minute dwell at Milton Keynes - fair enough, not great, but no risks there. It then enjoys a spell in the Beattock Down Passenger Loop for almost 20 minutes and then goes off-pattern and omits a call at Larbert. There's also 15 minutes of allowances just between Preston and Carlisle, which could see the train potentially sitting just outside, or at, Carlisle waiting for a platform if it gets a clear run.

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The code is LF.

Have been examining these diagrams and they are certainly pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for a passenger service, and on train messaging is going to be absolutely key here to avoid customers doing silly things like trying to open doors.

It's quite remarkable to see for a Class 1 passenger service. In particular, 1S01 appears to have a 9 minute dwell at Milton Keynes - fair enough, not great, but no risks there. It then enjoys a spell in the Beattock Down Passenger Loop for almost 20 minutes and then goes off-pattern and omits a call at Larbert. There's also 15 minutes of allowances just between Preston and Carlisle, which could see the train potentially sitting just outside, or at, Carlisle waiting for a platform if it gets a clear run.

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

That‘s quite reminiscent of the early versions of Grand Central’s ECML paths. I’m certain Lumo will have aspirations to achieve better in future but initially it’s just about getting your foot in the door and then being vigilant for opportunities further down the line.

 

[800001]

The code is LF.

Have been examining these diagrams and they are certainly pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for a passenger service, and on train messaging is going to be absolutely key here to avoid customers doing silly things like trying to open doors.

It's quite remarkable to see for a Class 1 passenger service. In particular, 1S01 appears to have a 9 minute dwell at Milton Keynes - fair enough, not great, but no risks there. It then enjoys a spell in the Beattock Down Passenger Loop for almost 20 minutes and then goes off-pattern and omits a call at Larbert. There's also 15 minutes of allowances just between Preston and Carlisle, which could see the train potentially sitting just outside, or at, Carlisle waiting for a platform if it gets a clear run.

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

Good announcements with reassurance that the train is on time etc, should keep people happy.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

The trainees will train and driver 222s for a few years.

They do not have any 803 for the Stirling route, hence 222s will be used first.

The 803 for Stirling route have not even started to be built and possibly won't until next year.
Most likely 2027 before they get them to learn to drive on.

An 80x derivative for this Stirling route will only be ordered as part of First's option for additional sets from Hitachi, beyond the confirmed order, if they get an extension for the track access rights beyond 2030, otherwise it will just be 222s for the duration. The live 80x order is for sets to bolster the current ECML Lumo operation, Hull Trains and the new Lumo service to Carmarthen, in an undisclosed combination of EMU / DEMU etc.

 

[The Planner]

The code is LF.

Have been examining these diagrams and they are certainly pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for a passenger service, and on train messaging is going to be absolutely key here to avoid customers doing silly things like trying to open doors.

It's quite remarkable to see for a Class 1 passenger service. In particular, 1S01 appears to have a 9 minute dwell at Milton Keynes - fair enough, not great, but no risks there. It then enjoys a spell in the Beattock Down Passenger Loop for almost 20 minutes and then goes off-pattern and omits a call at Larbert. There's also 15 minutes of allowances just between Preston and Carlisle, which could see the train potentially sitting just outside, or at, Carlisle waiting for a platform if it gets a clear run.

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

I count 13½ between Preston and Carlisle. 3 of those are box time so you can't count those. The rest is for following the TPE Liverpool to Glasgow. I also don't see why its going to be sat outside Carlisle when it uses P1 and the TPE P3. Beattock seems odd, as it should be able to get to Carstairs, or even Law Jn before the Euston Glasgow Avanti catches it.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The times are all on RTT from the 15th December 2025 under the code LT. ( https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W03837/2025-12-15/detailed ) At Carlisle

Interesting to see it’s using headcode 1M00, I don’t think I’ve seen this used on a passenger service since it’s normally mail trains.

 

[Some guy]

Do they have Birmingham based drivers?

So do they only do one Birmingham to London and back in a shift? What do they do for rest of shift?

Anyway I think we are deviating from the original point of this thread (including me) which is about the Lumo timetable.

Birmingham doesn’t have a depot but Wolverhampton does for Avanti. Manchester, Preston, Euston, Wolverhampton, Liverpool work a train to Birmingham or from Birmingham

 

[ainsworth74]

Interesting to see it’s using headcode 1M00, I don’t think I’ve seen this used on a passenger service since it’s normally mail trains.

Been used for donkeys years on the East Coast for the last Edinburgh to Birmingham XC, for instance today:

Realtime Trains | 1M00 1807 Edinburgh to Birmingham New Street | 05/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 1M00 1807 departure from Edinburgh to Birmingham New Street on 05/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[james60059]

Interesting to see it’s using headcode 1M00, I don’t think I’ve seen this used on a passenger service since it’s normally mail trains.

Isn't 1M00 usually the first XC Cardiff Central to Nottingham service (06:45 depart) although going to/from Gloucester this week

 

[hexagon789]

Interesting to see it’s using headcode 1M00, I don’t think I’ve seen this used on a passenger service since it’s normally mail trains.

An evening Edinburgh to Birmingham CrossCountry uses 1M00, also a Cardiff to Nottingham.

 

[lrbvoyager]

The code is LF.

Have been examining these diagrams and they are certainly pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for a passenger service, and on train messaging is going to be absolutely key here to avoid customers doing silly things like trying to open doors.

It's quite remarkable to see for a Class 1 passenger service. In particular, 1S01 appears to have a 9 minute dwell at Milton Keynes - fair enough, not great, but no risks there. It then enjoys a spell in the Beattock Down Passenger Loop for almost 20 minutes and then goes off-pattern and omits a call at Larbert. There's also 15 minutes of allowances just between Preston and Carlisle, which could see the train potentially sitting just outside, or at, Carlisle waiting for a platform if it gets a clear run.

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

They will definitely have access to a platform at Carlisle.

 

[XCTurbostar]

An evening Edinburgh to Birmingham CrossCountry uses 1M00, also a Cardiff to Nottingham.

I stand corrected, thanks.

 

[JonathanH]

A bit of a shame that the 1636 from Euston doesn't get to Stirling in time to connect for the last Glasgow to Aberdeen service. Seems to arrive in Stirling at 2232, with no service to Perth for an hour.

 

[BlueLeanie]

On a hot, busy day with the struggling aircon, that 20 mins in a random loop is going to feel like an eternity, especially if the passengers are already feeling frustrated at the exceptionally extended dwells and stops previous.

What difference does it make in a 222, or in future an 8XX, if a train is moving or if it is stationary, if there is an issue with the air conditioning?

It is not unusual for a service to be held if it is running ahead of timetable, or is timetabled to be held. It should still arrive at the station it's supposed to at the time it is supposed to.

 

[XCTurbostar]

In the eyes of some passengers, not moving == becoming late. I agree that the messaging is going to be important to ensure that passengers know its fully planned.

 

[Some guy]

A bit of a shame that the 1636 from Euston doesn't get to Stirling in time to connect for the last Glasgow to Aberdeen service. Seems to arrive in Stirling at 2232, with no service to Perth for an hour.

This will definitely be looked at as timetable changes go on over the next few years. They probably took whatever paths available so they can get their foot in the door

 

[nolypops83]

I’m one of the trainee drivers on this route. We started in June this year as planned and we’re cracking on with driver training. Really enjoying it so far, the team in Newcastle are really lovely. There are 16 of us in total, most will be based at Preston with a few at Euston and Stirling, which was discussed in the job advert.

As far as training goes, it was made very clear in the job advert and during the interview stages that we would need to be flexible. Initial classroom training is happening in Newcastle until roughly end of October. After that it’s currently unknown but I’m expecting we’ll do our hours on the ECML and on the 803’s while the driver instructors and qualified drivers get signed off on the 222’s and the WCML. With 16 of us to train, it gets quite complicated as you can imagine. We are getting the first 222 in September and the instructors and qualified drivers will join as and when, based on their notice period.

Service DEFINITELY won’t start in December, but I believe the plan is to start in May 2026 slow and steady as we did on the ECML (2 services a day) and ramp up to full service in time.

Lumo are really hot on making sure the customers are kept informed so drivers and ambassadors make announcements regularly. I’m sure that will be factored in on the WC too!

 

[800001]

I’m one of the trainee drivers on this route. We started in June this year as planned and we’re cracking on with driver training. Really enjoying it so far, the team in Newcastle are really lovely. There are 16 of us in total, most will be based at Preston with a few at Euston and Sterling, which was discussed in the job advert.

As far as training goes, it was made very clear in the job advert and during the interview stages that we would need to be flexible. Initial classroom training is happening in Newcastle until roughly end of October. After that it’s currently unknown but I’m expecting we’ll do our hours on the ECML and on the 803’s while the driver instructors and qualified drivers get signed off on the 222’s and the WCML. With 16 of us to train, it gets quite complicated as you can imagine. We are getting the first 222 in September and the instructors and qualified drivers will join as and when, based on their notice period.

Service DEFINITELY won’t start in December, but I believe the plan is to start in May 2026 slow and steady as we did on the ECML (2 services a day) and ramp up to full service in time.

Lumo are really hot on making sure the customers are kept informed so drivers and ambassadors make announcements regularly. I’m sure that will be factored in on the WC too!

A good insight there! Thank you

 

[lrbvoyager]

I’m one of the trainee drivers on this route. We started in June this year as planned and we’re cracking on with driver training. Really enjoying it so far, the team in Newcastle are really lovely. There are 16 of us in total, most will be based at Preston with a few at Euston and Sterling, which was discussed in the job advert.

As far as training goes, it was made very clear in the job advert and during the interview stages that we would need to be flexible. Initial classroom training is happening in Newcastle until roughly end of October. After that it’s currently unknown but I’m expecting we’ll do our hours on the ECML and on the 803’s while the driver instructors and qualified drivers get signed off on the 222’s and the WCML. With 16 of us to train, it gets quite complicated as you can imagine. We are getting the first 222 in September and the instructors and qualified drivers will join as and when, based on their notice period.

Service DEFINITELY won’t start in December, but I believe the plan is to start in May 2026 slow and steady as we did on the ECML (2 services a day) and ramp up to full service in time.

Lumo are really hot on making sure the customers are kept informed so drivers and ambassadors make announcements regularly. I’m sure that will be factored in on the WC too!

Thanks for clarifying this! Do you know how the dispatch will work?

 

[nolypops83]

A good insight there! Thank you

No problem! Obviously our main focus as trainees at the moment is the classroom training, but the management have kept us informed as best they can, but there are still quite a few unknowns as you’d expect there to be with starting a new service.

Thanks for clarifying this! Do you know how the dispatch will work?

We have not been officially told but I’m expecting it will be DCO/DOO. Just depends if the 222’s can be fitted with cameras. It works well with the CA’s getting everyone on the train, getting luggage stowed and away from the go/no go zone so the driver can focus on making sure it’s safe to set off. Especially where you’ve got a curved platform where visibility isn’t great. I’m new to the railway so I don’t know any different, but I’m aware that the driver/guard dispatch debate can get a bit…heated shall we say

 

[lrbvoyager]

No problem! Obviously our main focus as trainees at the moment is the classroom training, but the management have kept us informed as best they can, but there are still quite a few unknowns as you’d expect there to be with starting a new service.



We have not been officially told but I’m expecting it will be DCO/DOO. Just depends if the 222’s can be fitted with cameras. It works well with the CA’s getting everyone on the train, getting luggage stowed and away from the go/no go zone so the driver can focus on making sure it’s safe to set off. Especially where you’ve got a curved platform where visibility isn’t great. I’m new to the railway so I don’t know any different, but I’m aware that the driver/guard dispatch debate can get a bit…heated shall we say

Carlisle has got quite a curved platform, when dispatching a 390 you need 2 platform staff as a minimum to make sure it’s safe. I would imagine platform staff would dispatch to the Tm or whatever lumo calls them then they would buzz to the driver.

 

[ainsworth74]

With thanks to @nolypops83 for the insider info, I would suggest that getting into the weeds of Lumo dispatch process in the thread about the timetable is probably getting a bit off-topic, so I would suggest we leave it here

 

[43066]

After that it’s currently unknown but I’m expecting we’ll do our hours on the ECML and on the 803’s while the driver instructors and qualified drivers get signed off on the 222’s and the WCML.

They have presumably taken enough qualifieds to get the skeleton service up and running, as you’ll take quite a long time to sign the WCML from scratch if you do your hours on the ECML.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

They have presumably taken enough qualifieds to get the skeleton service up and running, as you’ll take quite a long time to sign the WCML from scratch if you do your hours on the ECML.

Generally, the number of days it takes for route learning is insisted upon by a trade union, which have very different views to the operator.

A lot of the timings are from a somewhat bygone era of lots of signal boxes, manual crossings, different signalling systems etc. There's still lots to learn, but you don't really start to learn a route until you're driving it solo.

It shouldn't take Lumo staff too long to sign the WCML, and I suspect it will be considerably faster than, say, Avanti. By the time they've had some familiarisation runs with 222s and a bit of route learning, they'll be grand.

Lumo staff will need to sign bits of the East Coast anyway, as there are empty stock movements from Euston to Ferme Park depot. Wouldn't surprise me if the Stirling lot will also sign King's Cross, especially with HS2 works.

 

[43066]

Generally, the number of days it takes for route learning is insisted upon by a trade union, which have very different views to the operator.

Not in my experience, nor that of the people I’ve been trained by, or been involved in training.

A lot of the timings are from a somewhat bygone era of lots of signal boxes, manual crossings, different signalling systems etc. There's still lots to learn, but you don't really start to learn a route until you're driving it solo.

I doubt any of this is true tbh. Are you a driver yourself?

It shouldn't take Lumo staff too long to sign the WCML, and I suspect it will be considerably faster than, say, Avanti. By the time they've had some familiarisation runs with 222s and a bit of route learning, they'll be grand.

I would be shocked if it wasn’t quicker than Avanti because they won’t be signing anything like as many diversions or intermediate stops. It’s still a lot of route to sign - it took qualifieds around 13 weeks to learn the midland mainline, for example. I suspect a fair bit longer than this for a length equivalent to the entire WCML (for the Preston based crew), with fewer trains to learn on, for brand new drivers who still aren’t used to driving trains at all.

Not something that can just be done overnight, and I hope they aren’t rushed into passing out.

 

[nolypops83]

Not in my experience, nor that of the people I’ve been trained by, or been involved in training.



I doubt any of this is true tbh. Are you a driver yourself?



I would be shocked if it wasn’t quicker than Avanti because they won’t be signing anything like as many diversions or intermediate stops. It’s still a lot of route to sign - it took qualifieds around 13 weeks to learn the midland mainline, for example. I suspect a fair bit longer than this for a length equivalent to the entire WCML (for the Preston based crew), with fewer trains to learn on, for brand new drivers who still aren’t used to driving trains at all.

Not something that can just be done overnight, and I hope they aren’t rushed into passing out.

Definitely won’t be rushed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2025 ==

With thanks to @nolypops83 for the insider info, I would suggest that getting into the weeds of Lumo dispatch process in the thread about the timetable is probably getting a bit off-topic, so I would suggest we leave it here

Yep, I didn’t want to get into any sort of debate about that.

 

[Efini92]

I doubt any of this is true tbh. Are you a driver yourself?

Sounds more like a daily mail reader tbh.

 

[Some guy]

Does anyone know when the first meridian is to be released for lumo?