Lumo Stirling timetable

[lrbvoyager]

The times are all on RTT from the 15th December 2025 under the code LT. ( https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W03837/2025-12-15/detailed ) At Carlisle

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Some discussion in this.

And they're using LF, not LT!

Lumo Stirling - Possible diversion routes

Let's assume the line is blocked for whatever reason between Motherwell and Whifflet, would they be sent via Wishaw missing out Motherwell? And if the line is blocked between Mossend Junctions and Whifflet, would they be sent further down the WCML to Polmadie sidings and reverse and via Carmyle...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[800001]

Thought they didn't start service until 2026?

 

[hexagon789]

Thought they didn't start service until 2026?

They aren't publically advertised services, so I assume they are in effect a sort of placeholder path.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

They aren't publically advertised services, so I assume they are in effect a sort of placeholder path.

They can use the paths if they like - and they probably will, just for training/testing until everything is ready.

The paths are the proper ones.

It may be that as soon as they have a 222 available, they'll run one or two services per day and gradually ramp things up as they get the rest of the fleet. Lumo did this on the Edinburgh route, gradually adding public services in.

 

[Mag_seven]

Discussion in this thread should be about the actual paths - speculative posts can be made here:

Lumo Stirling - Possible diversion routes

Let's assume the line is blocked for whatever reason between Motherwell and Whifflet, would they be sent via Wishaw missing out Motherwell? And if the line is blocked between Mossend Junctions and Whifflet, would they be sent further down the WCML to Polmadie sidings and reverse and via Carmyle...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[lrbvoyager]

Thought they didn't start service until 2026?

They must be being used if they have published them?

 

[800001]

They must be being used if they have published them?

They have not got a unit yet.
They only recruited trainee drivers last month (possibly month before).
They have not recruited any Customer Am ambassadors as yet.

Most likely the paths are there to start training, as and when the point comes to do training runs.

They certainly will not be starting passenger services in December 2025.

Lumo's own publicity states 'launching as early as spring 2026'. So still not a confirmed start date.

 

[lrbvoyager]

They have not got a unit yet.
They only recruited trainee drivers last month (possibly month before).
They have not recruited any Customer Am ambassadors as yet.

Most likely the paths are there to start training, as and when the point comes to do training runs.

They certainly will not be starting passenger services in December 2025 or March 2026.

I didn’t mean in passenger service. Do you think it’s possible they will train there staff on the 803s considering they have ordered some for WCML operations?

 

[Huntergreed]

I definitely welcome the increase in services from Lockerbie directly to London and Stirling. Some observations:

- Whilst it is a little bit of a shame that the first direct service from Lockerbie to London is only about 10 minutes behind the existing Avanti, it will be useful to have a link directly from Lockerbie to Milton Keynes Central in the morning (as this will allow easier change to many places in this area, improving further with the opening of the EWR).

- The other two services to Euston are well timed (10:17 and 13:56) and I can see a lot of people from this area (I live in Dumfries and Galloway) using these as opposed to changing at Carlisle for Avanti which is what is normally done at the moment.

- The northbound services equally seem well timed. Nice to have a morning service from London direct to Lockerbie, and direct services from Milton Keynes and Crewe which Avanti don't provide.

I'm definitely looking forward to the introduction of these services and think they're a great increase in the service provision from Lockerbie. I can see myself using them regularly to save the hassle of changing at Carlisle or Glasgow in future.

 

[800001]

I didn’t mean in passenger service. Do you think it’s possible they will train there staff on the 803s considering they have ordered some for WCML operations?

Why have class 1 services on timetable from December then? If training runs they would be class 5.
803 is irrelevant at the moment as they are initially getting 222s. 803s won't come for a few more years yet.

I also thing spring 2026 as stated on there own press release is too soon, unless they have a full Compliment of fully trained drivers who know the full wcml, which they don't as they have taken on a lot of trainee drivers which take roughly 12 months to train.

 

[Huntergreed]

Why have class 1 services on timetable from December then? 803 is irrelevant as they are initially getting 222s.

I also thing spring 2026 as stated on there own press release is too soon, unless they have a full Compliment of fully trained drivers who know the full wcml.

Presumably there will be a driver change at Preston (as the schedule states there is a stop for staffing reasons) so only half of the WCML will need to be learned for route knowledge, which seems manageable for the timescale they are setting out.

 

[800001]

Presumably there will be a driver change at Preston (as the schedule states there is a stop for staffing reasons) so only half of the WCML will need to be learned for route knowledge, which seems manageable for the timescale they are setting out.

I didn't mean each driver needs to know the full wcml, poorly worded on my part, I meant do they have a full
Compliment of staff who already know the full section of wcml that they will need to learn?

But, Preston will most likely have to learn all the way from London to to possibly Carlisle or further north.

Point remains, unless they have a full complement of already trained drivers they ain't starting service in Spring 2026.

 

[lrbvoyager]

I didn't mean each driver needs to know the full wcml, poorly worded on my part, I meant do they have a full
Compliment of staff who already know the full section of wcml that they will need to learn?

But, Preston will most likely have to learn all the way from London to to possibly Carlisle or further north.

Point remains, unless they have a full complement of already trained drivers they ain't starting service in Spring 2026.

Avanti staff bases at Preston cover Preston-Euston preston-Edinburgh/glasgow. However if they drive to Euston they can only do the south bound leg for that day and the same with the north.

 

[800001]

Avanti staff bases at Preston cover Preston-Euston preston-Edinburgh/glasgow. However if they drive to Euston they can only do the south bound leg for that day and the same with the north.

Fully aware of where Preston drivers actually drive to.

At the moment for Lumo we do not know how far north they will drive.

As for Avanti, you are saying a Preston driver can only drive Preston to Euston and can not drive back to Preston? I don't believe that for one minute.

I presume you actually mean they can drive Preston to Euston and return.
Or they can drive Preston to Edinburgh/Glasgow and return in the same day?

 

[lrbvoyager]

Fully aware of where Preston drivers actually drive to.

At the moment for Lumo we do not know how far north they will drive.

As for Avanti, you are saying a Preston driver can only drive Preston to Euston and can not drive back to Preston? I don't believe that for one minute.

I presume you actually mean they can drive Preston to Euston and return.
Or they can drive Preston to Edinburgh/Glasgow and return in the same day?

I do mean that

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

My only confusion is that rtt doesn’t list Crewe as a stop. I thought lumo had permission to stop there?
Edit: 1M01, 1S02 and 1S03 do

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Fully aware of where Preston drivers actually drive to.

At the moment for Lumo we do not know how far north they will drive.

As for Avanti, you are saying a Preston driver can only drive Preston to Euston and can not drive back to Preston? I don't believe that for one minute.

I presume you actually mean they can drive Preston to Euston and return.
Or they can drive Preston to Edinburgh/Glasgow and return in the same day?

Avanti drivers cannot drive over the same route more than once per shift due to a union agreement.

 

[800001]

Avanti drivers cannot drive over the same route more than once per shift due to a union agreement.

And we wonder why trains get cancelled in disruption when staff are available, but even if enough hours left in there shift, because they have driven route once in that day they can not drive it again. Stupid!

Yet other TOCS crews drove same route multiple times per day.

The railway does not help it self at times.

 

[Efini92]

Why have class 1 services on timetable from December then? If training runs they would be class 5.
803 is irrelevant at the moment as they are initially getting 222s. 803s won't come for a few more years yet.

I also thing spring 2026 as stated on there own press release is too soon, unless they have a full Compliment of fully trained drivers who know the full wcml, which they don't as they have taken on a lot of trainee drivers which take roughly 12 months to train.

It’s plausible that the trainees would train on 803 initially. Can’t see lumo having them sat around whilst they wait for the meridians to become available.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

It’s plausible that the trainees would train on 803 initially. Can’t see lumo having them sat around whilst they wait for the meridians to become available.

They should have a Class 222 in September for training, although I imagine they'll be trained on the East Coast Mainline with the training taking place in Newcastle I believe.

 

[800001]

It’s plausible that the trainees would train on 803 initially. Can’t see lumo having them sat around whilst they wait for the meridians to become available.

The trainees will train and driver 222s for a few years.

They do not have any 803 for the Stirling route, hence 222s will be used first.

The 803 for Stirling route have not even started to be built and possibly won't until next year.
Most likely 2027 before they get them to learn to drive on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

They should have a Class 222 in September for training, although I imagine they'll be trained on the East Coast Mainline with the training taking place in Newcastle I believe.

Why would they train on the ECML? Surely you would do training on the route they will operate on?

Classroom train yes maybe, most certainly, will be in Newcastle

 

[Efini92]

The trainees will train and driver 222s for a few years.

They do not have any 803 for the Stirling route, hence 222s will be used first.

The 803 for Stirling route have not even started to be built and possibly won't until next year.
Most likely 2027 before they get them to learn to drive on.

Yes that’s correct. But as it stands they have trainees training now in Newcastle. They have to do their handling on something to become qualified.
They aren’t going to be driving up and down the WCML any time soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==

The trainees will train and driver 222s for a few years.

They do not have any 803 for the Stirling route, hence 222s will be used first.

The 803 for Stirling route have not even started to be built and possibly won't until next year.
Most likely 2027 before they get them to learn to drive on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==


Why would they train on the ECML? Surely you would do training on the route they will operate on?

Classroom train yes maybe, most certainly, will be in Newcastle

They don’t have anyone on the WCML that can train them, or any trains yet.

 

[800001]

Yes that’s correct. But as it stands they have trainees training now in Newcastle. They have to do their handling on something to become qualified.
They aren’t going to be driving up and down the WCML any time soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2025 ==


They don’t have anyone on the WCML that can train them, or any trains yet.

Being naive to driver training, regardless of where classroom training was, you would assume they would do handling on the route they would drive. Silly me.

 

[Efini92]

Being naive to driver training, regardless of where classroom training was, you would assume they would do handling on the route they would drive. Silly me.

That’s how it should happen. Really what lumo should’ve done is get the service up and running then take on trainee drivers.

 

[800001]

That’s how it should happen. Really what lumo should’ve done is get the service up and running then take on trainee drivers.

I've noticed the qualified driver's job advert has been online for many many weeks.

Same with fleet engineer (not surprising when it's advertised as a 6 month vacancy)

 

[Efini92]

I've noticed the qualified driver's job advert has been online for many many weeks.

Same with fleet engineer (not surprising when it's advertised as a 6 month vacancy)

I can’t see it appealing to that many. The incentive isn’t really good enough for what most already have.

 

[MatthewHutton]

I definitely welcome the increase in services from Lockerbie directly to London and Stirling. Some observations:

- Whilst it is a little bit of a shame that the first direct service from Lockerbie to London is only about 10 minutes behind the existing Avanti, it will be useful to have a link directly from Lockerbie to Milton Keynes Central in the morning (as this will allow easier change to many places in this area, improving further with the opening of the EWR).

- The other two services to Euston are well timed (10:17 and 13:56) and I can see a lot of people from this area (I live in Dumfries and Galloway) using these as opposed to changing at Carlisle for Avanti which is what is normally done at the moment.

- The northbound services equally seem well timed. Nice to have a morning service from London direct to Lockerbie, and direct services from Milton Keynes and Crewe which Avanti don't provide.

I'm definitely looking forward to the introduction of these services and think they're a great increase in the service provision from Lockerbie. I can see myself using them regularly to save the hassle of changing at Carlisle or Glasgow in future.

It will be very interesting how a Scotland train that stops before Birmingham does. I think it might do quite well.

 

[43066]

And we wonder why trains get cancelled in disruption when staff are available, but even if enough hours left in there shift, because they have driven route once in that day they can not drive it again. Stupid!

Yet other TOCS crews drove same route multiple times per day.

The railway does not help it self at times.

Yet Avanti drivers also have 12 hour spare movements and a roster that is bad enough to put many drivers off working for them, so focussing on one aspect of their Ts and Cs while ignoring the rest makes no sense at all.

The agreement is AIUI also not to double trip - that doesn’t mean a driver can’t do an out and back from Preston to London or vice versa @Efini92 will be able to confirm. They would be hard pressed to do a double trip of that distance within a shift in any case.

 

[800001]

Yet Avanti drivers also have 12 hour spare movements and a roster that is bad enough to put many drivers off working for them, so focussing on one aspect of their Ts and Cs while ignoring the rest makes no sense at all.

The agreement is AIUI also not to double trip - that doesn’t mean a driver can’t do an out and back from Preston to London or vice versa @Efini92 will be able to confirm. They would be hard pressed to do a double trip of that distance within a shift in any case.

Do they have Birmingham based drivers?

So do they only do one Birmingham to London and back in a shift? What do they do for rest of shift?

Anyway I think we are deviating from the original point of this thread (including me) which is about the Lumo timetable.

 

[43066]

Do they have Birmingham based drivers?

So do they only do one Birmingham to London and back in a shift? What do they do for rest of shift?

Anyway I think we are deviating from the original point of this thread (including me) which is about the Lumo timetable.

It looks as though they don’t have Birmingham based drivers. London could go London - Brum - London then shunt/ECS, or London - Preston - pass to Manchester and work back from there. Speaking as a driver I’d far rather have double trips allowed but no twelve hour movement.

Not directly relevant to Lumo, although they will presumably be looking at how Avanti crew their services from Preston, as they will be covering a similar geographical area.