Lumo - so I tried it out...

[Bletchleyite]

So, I had an unusual situation where I was going to Scotland for one night and thus had a small enough bag, and thought I'd give Lumo a go from Edinburgh to Kings X.

Very first impressions were basically "this is just an 80x with the seats from the Pendolino refurb in", and yes, it basically is - points for not being Sophias, I guess. Legroom slightly poorer than the Pendolino but I moved to a priority seat (didn't seem to be able to book one, even using Trainsplit) and the socket in a different place but otherwise similar. They had announced to sit only in your booked seat but nothing was said when I was checked. It's noticeable, by the way, that the seats are a bit lower than Sophias which means in the high floor coaches you feel a bit low compared to the windows and in the low floor ones (which I didn't try) it will probably feel more like a Mk3 or 153 or similar with the window very high, one to watch out for with the new Avanti units when they arrive. Lumo's tables are also lower than the Pendolino ones, a bit too low in my book, and slope slightly so stuff falls off. (They're all like that so it wasn't just damage from people doing stuff like sitting kids on them).

That aside, thoughts:

Staff seemed a bit amateurish, though it might be the deliberately "young" personality. Scanning a ticket isn't "amazing", the correct response to scanning a ticket and finding it valid is "thankyou". I guess it's to aim at the young market, but when I was in my teens and twenties anything that aimed at being "down with the kids" was just seen as older people being patronising, and I doubt that has changed. I am a fan of the "steward" operating model though and it's what I'd do if I opened a new IC TOC.

The unit was in a very poor state of repair indeed. At least one table was missing entirely, and the one at my seat was dirty. The seat covers are flat cloth and were mucky in places. The baby changing table in the accessible bog was missing and the space taped up. The end caps from the armrests (where they rotate) were missing in a number of rows, and there was a lot of damage in vestibules where it had clearly been belted with a trolley quite hard. I also found that that whine you get on 80x when on electric was quite pronounced, it seemed a lot worse than most 80x are, and I normally sit in about the same place (priority seat at the first full window in a high floor coach), and there seemed to be more rattles than a typical 80x, my ears were not a fan of this.

Luggage wasn't a major issue because the train was quiet.

Not sure I like the seating layout, they'd be better off with the tables in the same place on both sides so families can get 4 in a row absent a decent number of tables. As it is the "reversal" is at the third (I think) bay in on each side so there aren't many full rows of 4 all facing the same way. Legroom is slightly poorer than Avanti but not awful for a budget service.

Lighting is said to be a warmer colour than other 80x but I didn't really notice. The luggage rack glass is purple which slightly changes it too. I only saw a difference when I stood between it and an LNER unit at Kings X and compared directly. Plus despite the lighting being a *very very slightly* less warm colour, the LNER red seats make the interior have a much warmer feel than Lumo's blue. Talking of the blue the train isn't as insipid as it looks on photos, the blue looks OK in person.

Coffee and a bag of crisps was £4 which is less than I expected. Generic instant though, nothing special.

Other than the luggage policy and the fact that they seem to ignore the potential upsells (e.g. paid seat selection, paying for a bigger bag etc) plus their approach to just cancelling during engineering works I'd probably say not that bad, but for one thing - the clientelle. It seems a low cost service attracts a certain clientelle, and as such there were several people playing rubbish out of their phones for the whole journey with staff making no attempt to ask them to pack it in, and a family sat near me with the woman having a case of body odour so bad that when I got a whiff I felt ill. Is this how Megabus is these days? I think it would have been truly horrible had there been 80-odd people in each coach rather than about 15-20 at most.

All that aside, I'd use it again if I had to and had a suitably small bag, but otherwise I'd put up with the Fainsa Sophia and go with LNER, or even better Avanti given that MKC was my destination. (Main reason I didn't was the Carstairs works). And isn't the ECML just drab once you're past Durham?

5/10 maybe. Ryanair on rails, but without most of their business model, albeit better seats! Main thing that'd put me off is the high likelihood of them cancelling and ignoring the right to re-routeing, causing massive delays, but I hate to think what it'd be like if busy.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm glad you don't kiss their backside like so many seem to do just because they're cheap and don't have Sophias.
Mind you,

Scanning a ticket isn't "amazing", the correct response to scanning a ticket and finding it valid is "thankyou".

That is very harsh indeed. All that shows is that the staff member was in a good mood and friendly. You're lucky! I don't often find UK customer-facing staff to have a very cheery disposition at all these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is very harsh indeed. All that shows is that the staff member was in a good mood and friendly. You're lucky! I don't often find UK customer-facing staff to have a very cheery disposition at all these days.

I think there's a fine line between someone who's being themselves and an Americanised "have a nice day" said patronisingly by a burger "restaurant" cashier who actually hates their job and is about to quit. I thought it was a little bit more the latter, but may have just read the situation wrong. The service wasn't bad as such, but it just felt a little bit acted. Perhaps it was genuine.

It was a very minor point though. The main criticisms were the poor state of repair of the unit, the extremely loud whine (worse than other 80x, definitely), some of the clientelle who didn't know how to conduct themselves in public (by far the worst train I've ever been on for that, and it was only about a quarter full - at least when playing rubbish on phones people normally keep the volume fairly low) and the fact that they cancel trains on a whim and offer poor alternatives. The latter is the killer, really - I set out with the near-expectation that if someone sneezed on the ECML then I'd need to be buying an LNER Off Peak Single and getting a refund.

 

[Cambus731]

I stand to be corrected, but do some of their trains traverse the York station avoiding line?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I stand to be corrected, but do some of their trains traverse the York station avoiding line?

The one I was on went through the station, don't know about others.

 

[pdeaves]

I stand to be corrected, but do some of their trains traverse the York station avoiding line?

Yes (northbound only, and not all of them).

 

[Cambus731]

Yes (northbound only, and not all of them).

I did suggest some time ago that this website could do with a thread about 'clearing rare track' but the consensus seemed to be that there was no need for one.

 

[Segedunum]

I've noticed myself that the units seem half-wrecked already inside with missing tables and the like. Clearly they're worked hard with less time to give them some TLC.

Staff attitude (when they're in a good mood, obviously) has always been like that. I used them on day 1 and there was an obvious script they were having to follow with announcements. This has gradually slipped over time and staff tend to say whatever feels appropriate - which at least shows they half give a toss about what they're saying rather than reading it straight from the manual. There's only so many times you can hear/say "have a lovely stay in (station) and to those of you who live here, welcome home" before you lose the plot.

I rarely use them to London though as they regularly end up full which makes for a pretty grim journey. Newcastle to Edinburgh on the other hand can be had for £6.50 (with Railcard) last-minute sometimes, which is great with just the one stop at Morpeth.

Passenger behaviour I haven't noticed to be massively worse. That said, on my last journey I had a cockney woman on the phone at about 500 decibels screaming about the lack of tables...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was quite amused by the idea of having a lovely stay in Stevenage, it has to be said.

 

[Techniquest]

An interesting insight into Lumo, who I have yet to use. The one time I had the option to try them out, I couldn't take a cycle with me so didn't buy the ticket after all. I've yet to have an occasion when I'm in the right position to travel with Lumo, the biggest draw has to be the not stopping at York thing.

Reading your comments, I do think you were a bit harsh on the crew member who checked your ticket. The number of people who are actually happy in their work is admittedly not a big number, and it's not clear if they were actually happy or not, but it seems overly harsh to criticise them for saying something other than thank you. I spent way too long every week having to make the same conversation with people in my job, and sometimes you just have to try almost anything to stop driving yourself crazy. Changing the words you use is one way of doing that

Given your comments on Lumo, I'm certainly not in a rush to try them. LNER are safe, not that I expected anything less, and my next long journey up the ECML will almost certainly be with them. Unless things work out and I can travel at least part of the way with Hull Trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hull? If they can't be bothered even with a Standard trolley when they have a steward on board I'd not be giving them any of my money. That's a GNER style attitude.

 

[gabrielhj07]

the extremely loud whine (worse than other 80x, definitely),

I’m glad someone else noticed this, I had started to think I was hearing things!

You may be right about the ‘clientele’. A northbound journey I made with them was delayed over an hour while offloading someone. Southbound the next day and we were subject to Saturn V levels of noise from a hen party.

 

[Fleetmaster]

I'm just baffled by this review. My experience couldn't have been different.

Clean well maintained coaches (although didn't use the toilet or ever really note the condition of vestibules). Extraordinary generous legroom, a table seat outbound and standard back. No discernable issues with seat, table or window height (I'm not the tallest or skinniest).

Clean comfortable seats, my journey length and my finickityness meaning anything else would be very noticeable. Bright lighting, but it seemed to work with the bold blue interior. Totally agree the train livery looks way better in person (better still speeding past you at a crossing).

Polite professional staff (I'm a personable but not sociable middle aged man) despite the carriage and indeed entire train being at full capacity. No evident issues with clientele, not very noisy and nobody up and down, despite being a daytime weekend service with a whole slice of life aboard. I strongly suspect it is the vibe created by the service and interior that meant this was a rare treat.

I did find the phrasing of announcements curious, almost irksome/patronizing, but these days it seems mandatory that such things are a part of the service industry, and in this case you could certainly believe the staff were happy enough enough their employer that their sentiments were genuine, not forced. You can't reay fake tone of voice (or rather, it's super obvious if you are).

 

[Fleetmaster]

I'm comfortably well off, but the perception a train operstor of all things is trying to charge me more than the cost of the service just to keep the riff raff of, would be guaranteed to see me hiring a car instead.

There was a Steward checking tickets and a separate staff member operating a trolley, which seems generous for a low cost outfit. I took a tea for refreshment because I'm British, but I long ago stopped being interested in the price or range of anything else on any train trolley due to the acute sense of being ripped off, so if Lumo or any other operators are offering fantastic (healthy, tasty, varied) products at fair prices (I'd accept 10% above retail) they need to do a better job letting me know. I'm not going to ask or even peruse. If I see a packet of shortbread biscuits in a tartan wrapper and the entire Cadbury's/Nestlé/Mars range, you can jog on. For some bizarre reason the sliced fruit cake almost tempted me, but I put that down to my advancing years or a brain disease.

Seat reservations were mandatory and meticulously observed, helped surely by the very clear indicators and seat numbering and the strong but polite announcements, and my perception at least that there's no bad seats anywhere in the coach. The staff weren't proactively checking, but in my experience all TOC staff pay this no attention until there's a dispute.

Maybe I got lucky, but on the whole, for the price, I was greatly impressed. I've had far worse experiences on the traditional operators and had my wallet thoroughly gouged for the privilege. I've also had worse service on trains where the staff don't seem to care their entire employment is predicated on this idea that it's the tax payer's job to fund their trips around the country in virtually empty trains that are meticulously clean and in good working order because nobody is using them.

I definitely got the impression, far more than any experience I've had with LNER and predecessors right back to Intercity, that I was seen as a customer. My custom was valued. I matter. Me, personally. This is possible for an operator to achieve despite my interactions with their staff and website being very limited. Just do what I expect - give me a decent train at a decent price and don't make it a massive hassle.

My case fit easily in the overhead rack, despite the train being full. If the low price is partly down to restricted luggage, I would have never even noticed, and certainly wasn't aware of any other complaints, so it's a good example of how the railways can be better if people's minds are focused on the important things.

I have absolutely no problem with Lumo just canceling trains due to engineering works. I genuinely didn't know that was their policy, but my trepidation with rail travel overall is hardly down to one small operator's decisions to keep costs low, it's the whole creaking mess.

In that regard, I was actually pleased that the Luno service ran meticulously to time despite the fact it was at capacity and there were other things going on which larger operators routinely use as excuses to delay or even cancel services.

With respect to Lumo, I never got the impression that the limited things in a TOCs control regarding the basics of whether a train even runs let alone to time, would be a significant factor in my journey. The way the train glided to a stop, my coach exactly where it should be, and my first impressions on boarding it, were enough for such things things melt away entirely. If only the rest of the system could generate such confidence and indeed make the experience of riding the rails actually relaxing not just when it is easy, but when it is difficult.

 

[williamn]

I've used them a few times, and find their early 05.45 departure from London useful, if not pleasant!

I think poor behaviour from passengers, usually by playing music or videos with no headphones is sadly now everywhere.

I have also noticed that the units interiors are in a very poor state of repair given their relative newness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think poor behaviour from passengers, usually by playing music or videos with no headphones is sadly now everywhere.

It was worse on that train than I've experienced anywhere before. Usually it's one person just doing a bit of doomscrolling. This time it was several people for the whole journey with the volume quite high (possibly because of the ear-splitting whine the unit was emitting - I've heard others moan about this before but I've never noticed it being that loud and I've been on loads of 80x).

I have also noticed that the units interiors are in a very poor state of repair given their relative newness.

Makes me wonder how well maintained they are mechanically too - i.e. more cancellations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading your comments, I do think you were a bit harsh on the crew member who checked your ticket. The number of people who are actually happy in their work is admittedly not a big number, and it's not clear if they were actually happy or not, but it seems overly harsh to criticise them for saying something other than thank you. I spent way too long every week having to make the same conversation with people in my job, and sometimes you just have to try almost anything to stop driving yourself crazy. Changing the words you use is one way of doing that

It was a very minor point that was more to emphasize that they are doing that "we're down wiv da yoof" personality thing throughout the experience, which isn't to my taste but then I'm not "da yoof"

 

[williamn]

It was a very minor point that was more to emphasize that they are doing that "we're down wiv da yoof" personality thing throughout the experience, which isn't to my taste but then I'm not "da yoof"

You're obviously not the target market!!

I got a cat drawn on my ticket by the staff checking them which was...a first!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're obviously not the target market!!

I wasn't when I was young either. I found anything any corporate entity tried to aim at people in their teens and early twenties grossly patronising. This is one I think Megabus did quite well - the old "cheery fat bus driver" mascot (Sid, wasn't it? Can hardly imagine a less young name!) was quite amusing but not specifically youth-aimed, but youth seemed to rally round it. Whereas any corporate youth outreach scheme is pretty much by definition going to get it wrong.

I got a cat drawn on my ticket by the staff checking them which was...a first!

In the days of putting holes in tickets I saw some amusing ones, to be fair.

 

[J-2739]

I was quite amused by the idea of having a lovely stay in Stevenage, it has to be said.

I had a stay in Stevenage once. Reminded me of the beauty of Wakefield.

I wish there was a good opportunity for me to use Lumo some time, but they serve no place near Yorkshire.

 

[Techniquest]

Hull? If they can't be bothered even with a Standard trolley when they have a steward on board I'd not be giving them any of my money. That's a GNER style attitude.

I've only had one journey with HT during the 802 era (and only in the 222 era), which was in First Class, but I'm absolutely certain the trolley went to Standard before it returned to First on my journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've only had one journey with HT during the 802 era (and only in the 222 era), which was in First Class, but I'm absolutely certain the trolley went to Standard before it returned to First on my journey.

Hull have offered no Standard catering at all since COVID. They removed it for COVID and didn't reinstate it.

 

[Techniquest]

Hull have offered no Standard catering at all since COVID. They removed it for COVID and didn't reinstate it.

I'll have to take your word for it, I haven't travelled with them in Standard since 2007. The First Class service was definitely one of my top 3 out of all the First Class I've used in (relatively) recent times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Extraordinary generous legroom, a table seat outbound and standard back.

Were you in a priority seat? Those were quite generous. I tried a normal seat and it was slightly tighter than Avanti's refurbished Pendolinos and other 80x, which unfortunately would be the difference between "OK" and "not acceptable for a 4 hour trip" for me. To be fair I am tall and also have post-thrombotic syndrome which means sitting with my right leg bent for more than about an hour is incredibly uncomfortable, so there has to be enough room for me to stretch out at 6' 4" with 35" inside leg.

Didn't try a table, they're not my preference and there are only 2 per coach anyway.

The seats themselves were good, being the same as the Pendolino refurb, though I think it's a slightly different cushion, though sadly the Pendolino I used back up from Euston to MKC was an old interior so I couldn't directly compare, I had hoped for a refurb but wasn't sitting around for another half hour in hope of one!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I did find the phrasing of announcements curious, almost irksome/patronizing, but these days it seems mandatory that such things are a part of the service industry, and in this case you could certainly believe the staff were happy enough enough their employer that their sentiments were genuine, not forced. You can't reay fake tone of voice (or rather, it's super obvious if you are).

To be fair they did seem genuine, though not knowledgeable*. I just find the corporate babble grates a bit. I find for instance that easyJet manages to do the "cheery and friendly" bit without the "patronising corporate waffle" bit.

* e.g. "We need everyone to sit in their reserved seat because, er, reservations are compulsory on this service" - not when it's a third full you don't, and nothing was said for me when I didn't, not sitting next to someone when there were enough empty rows for two seats each!

My case fit easily in the overhead rack, despite the train being full. If the low price is partly down to restricted luggage, I would have never even noticed, and certainly wasn't aware of any other complaints, so it's a good example of how the railways can be better if people's minds are focused on the important things.

They bizarrely seem to miss the point on the luggage thing. With their model being like that of a low cost airline, surely the sensible thing to do is allow bigger bags but charge for them - Ryanair themselves say they make more money from ancillaries than fares. Ryanair also offer a very varied and surprisingly good quality food and drink selection because that's profitable too, Lumo offer a typical "instant coffee and bag of crisps" trolley. Yes, there's the pre-ordering thing, but my experience of the railway says not to trust it and to go to M&S Food instead.

I have absolutely no problem with Lumo just canceling trains due to engineering works. I genuinely didn't know that was their policy, but my trepidation with rail travel overall is hardly down to one small operator's decisions to keep costs low, it's the whole creaking mess.

I absolutely have a problem with any transport operator putting any service of any kind on sale when they cannot say to a reasonable level of certainty (i.e. barring incidents like trees on the line and strikes) that it will operate. There's a phrase for that, and it's "bait and switch". Absolutely unacceptable to do this, unless they pay for those displaced to be accommodated on the closest-to-time LNER service as the PRO requires them to do. ScotRail across to Glasgow then Avanti doesn't count as it takes coming on two hours longer, and nor does a bus to Newcastle; if I wanted a bus trip I'd go with Megabus, Flix or NatEx.

Some airlines do it too and it stinks. I stopped using the small boutique airline VLM because they kept canning the flight I most used because it was undersold. You sell it, you run it. If you're not sure you can't run it, don't sell it.

In that regard, I was actually pleased that the Luno service ran meticulously to time despite the fact it was at capacity and there were other things going on which larger operators routinely use as excuses to delay or even cancel services.

Timekeeping is a basic expectation, not something to shout about! I agree about some other operators pulling services when they need not.

With respect to Lumo, I never got the impression that the limited things in a TOCs control regarding the basics of whether a train even runs let alone to time, would be a significant factor in my journey. The way the train glided to a stop, my coach exactly where it should be, and my first impressions on boarding it, were enough for such things things melt away entirely. If only the rest of the system could generate such confidence and indeed make the experience of riding the rails actually relaxing not just when it is easy, but when it is difficult.

I would have no confidence whatsoever on Lumo handling things well in the event of disruption any more than I'd expect that Ryanair would. As I did this journey to try Lumo out I did do it with the possibility in mind that I'd have to refund it and buy a LNER Super Off Peak Single which I'd originally budgeted for when I booked (but saw Lumo come up so thought I'd try it, it was only about 20 quid cheaper), having read of all the tribulations here and bad reviews on e.g. Trustpilot (I think it gets one star on there overall, or maybe it was two, certainly not more). But I'd not use it again, not even to avoid the "venerable" Fainsa Sophia.

 

[James H]

I think poor behaviour from passengers, usually by playing music or videos with no headphones is sadly now everywhere.

I very nearly said something to the man across the aisle from me on the Eurostar from Brussels last night who was playing a video with an annoying laughter track out loud.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I very nearly said something to the man across the aisle from me on the Eurostar from Brussels last night who was playing a video with an annoying laughter track out loud.

I did say something to one guy who had the volume up ridiculously high to the point it was hurting my ears let alone his. To be fair to him he turned it down but not off. I thought trying to get everyone who was doing it to pack it in entirely would have been a losing battle, however I really do think staff need to be more proactive on such antisocial behaviour (which it is) and ask for it to be stopped without needing to point it out.

I don't understand why people don't use earphones. They're cheap (even Bluetooth ones) and give a much higher quality of sound. I wouldn't want to listen out loud even were it not ASB!

 

[Herefordian]

I'm 43 and a conductor saying "amazing" after checking my ticket wouldn't bother me.

I'm not sure why you're bothered by someone taking pride in their job.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm 43 and a conductor saying "amazing" after checking my ticket wouldn't bother me.

I'm not sure why you're bothered by someone taking pride in their job.

I'm confused as to why people are seizing on an offhand comment about the personality of the service which I said was minor to use as a stick. Why not discuss the more important parts of the review? It was just an observation about the "happy clappy" corporate style which doesn't meet my tastes; I prefer staff to be genuine and professional.

Along similar lines, I don't overly like being called "mate" by people who aren't my friend. The postman does it and it grates to high heaven. I'd understand in Liverpool where everyone does it (a bit like "duck" and "love" in some places) but he had a clear Southern accent so I have no idea where he got it from! If you want to call me anything call me Mr. Bletchleyite (well, you know, my actual name), you know that's my name because it's written on the parcel you just gave me.

(Odd thing, when in a German speaking country I similarly dislike the corporate trend to be "auf du" with customers, which is a similar thing to calling someone "mate" - if I don't know you, it's Sie or Herr Bletchleyite, thank you - it doesn't make you friendly, as I was taught German it makes you rude, patronising and overpersonal, as the only reason to use "du" when talking to someone who isn't a friend is to deliberately talk down to them. I also dislike the Morrisons supermarket's "we're an honest Northern grocer" "theme park" tripe, to be fair, so I think it's just a genuine dislike of anything corporate trying to be what it isn't).

Obviously, as I admitted, while I'm "down wiv da yoof" in terms of my preference for e-ticketing, I prefer a more traditional approach to being spoken to than this sort of corporate house style. Each to their own of course, but it's something that I didn't think was positive (but was a very minor negative).

But we're probably overtalking this issue, it wouldn't put me off on its own, it's just something I prefer not to be overdone. It's the other things that would put me off again, in particular the horrible whining noise which was akin to the Class 158's transmission whine, and I've paid a small fortune to GWR to avoid that before (having gone out on a 158 from Waterloo) and would do again. No idea why it was so much worse than other 80x, but it definitely was. I generally like 80x, but if they were all like this I wouldn't!

 

[Herefordian]

I'm confused as to why people are seizing on an offhand comment about the personality of the service which I said was minor to use as a stick. Why not discuss the more important parts of the review? It was just an observation about the "happy clappy" corporate style which doesn't meet my tastes; I prefer staff to be genuine and professional.

Along similar lines, I don't overly like being called "mate" by people who aren't my friend. The postman does it and it grates to high heaven. I'd understand in Liverpool where everyone does it (a bit like "duck" and "love" in some places) but he had a clear Southern accent so I have no idea where he got it from! If you want to call me anything call me Mr. Bletchleyite (well, you know, my actual name), you know that's my name because it's written on the parcel you just gave me.

(Odd thing, when in a German speaking country I similarly dislike the corporate trend to be "auf du" with customers, which is a similar thing to calling someone "mate" - if I don't know you, it's Sie or Herr Bletchleyite, thank you - it doesn't make you friendly, as I was taught German it makes you rude, patronising and overpersonal. I also dislike the Morrisons supermarket's "we're an honest Northern grocer" "theme park" tripe, to be fair, so I think it's just a genuine dislike of anything corporate trying to be what it isn't).

Obviously, as I admitted, while I'm "down wiv da yoof" in terms of my preference for e-ticketing, I prefer a more traditional approach to being spoken to than this sort of corporate house style. Each to their own of course, but it's something that I didn't think was positive (but was a very minor negative).

But we're probably overtalking this issue, it wouldn't put me off on its own, it's just something I prefer not to be overdone. It's the other things that would put me off again, in particular the horrible whining noise which was akin to the Class 158's transmission whine, and I've paid a small fortune to GWR to avoid that before (having gone out on a 158 from Waterloo) and would do again. No idea why it was so much worse than other 80x, but it definitely was. I generally like 80x, but if they were all like this I wouldn't!

It's a discussion forum. People are going to pick up on things they agree/disagree with.

I can't fairly comment on the other aspects of your review simply because I haven't travelled with Lumo.

It's fair enough you prefer Sir, Mr Bletchleyite, etc., but I still think your criticism of the conductor is unfair.

It's good you're open to giving Lumo another go though. Hopefully, I will myself at some point.