Lumo first group box advice

[Benedict]

Hi, as part of first group we plan to use our boxes from London king's cross to Edinburgh on the Lumo. Is it worth chancing spare seats on the day, as I understand not possible to reserve? Thanks

 

[Watershed]

There should be some seats kept free for passengers without reservations. However you can make a reservation (without needing to have an online booking) using one of the MixingDeck based sites, e.g. GWR - see the instructions towards the bottom of this page.

 

[Haywain]

Hi, as part of first group we plan to use our boxes from London king's cross to Edinburgh on the Lumo. Is it worth chancing spare seats on the day, as I understand not possible to reserve? Thanks

Or even chancing whether the train runs?

 

[Benedict]

Is it not a reliable service then?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2022 ==

Or even chancing whether the train runs?

Will look into this, thanks!

 

[Haywain]

Is it not a reliable service then?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2022 ==


Will look into this, thanks!

This morning the 1045 from Kings Cross was cancelled and then reinstated and the 1218 cancelled instead. Passengers from the 1218 were told to go to Euston to travel with Avanti.

 

[Watershed]

This morning the 1045 from Kings Cross was cancelled and then reinstated and the 1218 cancelled instead. Passengers from the 1318 were told to go to Euston to travel with Avanti.

I'm sure the 12:00 or 12:30 would have had at least some seats available, even if not all passengers could have been accommodated on a single train. Depending on when the cancellation was announced, the 11:00 or 11:30 may also have been an option.

Do you happen to know what arrangements were in place for Newcastle and Morpeth passengers?

Anyone who was forced to take the 12:43 from Euston to Edinburgh would have been unnecessarily delayed by around 2 hours. Absolutely unacceptable.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There should be some seats kept free for passengers without reservations. However you can make a reservation (without needing to have an online booking) using one of the MixingDeck based sites, e.g. GWR - see the instructions towards the bottom of this page.

Or pop in to a ticket office and request a reservation. They are free and essential.

 

[Haywain]

Do you happen to know what arrangements were in place for Newcastle and Morpeth passengers?

I'm not sure, to be honest. Lumo might have arranged ticket acceptance with LNER for Newcastle (to Edinburgh) passengers but the messages I saw were far from clear and, being in London, of no great concern to us. I didn't encounter any travelling to Newcastle. We didn't see anything about Morpeth passengers.

I'm sure the 12:00 or 12:30 would have had at least some seats available, even if not all passengers could have been accommodated on a single train. Depending on when the cancellation was announced, the 11:00 or 11:30 may also have been an option.

Anyone who was forced to take the 12:43 from Euston to Edinburgh would have been unnecessarily delayed by around 2 hours. Absolutely unacceptable.

There were seats available to purchase on the 12:30 but I have no idea whether Lumo even asked. Being part of First Group I guess they go for the cheap option of a sister company.

From the perspective of staff on the station it was shambolic. The train was shown as cancelled a good half hour before any information about alternative travel arrangements was available, and there was no Lumo staff presence on the station.

 

[westv]

I'm curious to know what a "box" is in the context of this thread.

 

[Watershed]

I'm not sure, to be honest. Lumo might have arranged ticket acceptance with LNER for Newcastle (to Edinburgh) passengers but the messages I saw were far from clear and, being in London, of no great concern to us. I didn't encounter any travelling to Newcastle. We didn't see anything about Morpeth passengers.

Looking at what's been arranged today for the cancellation of the 06:23 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service, it looks like their default response is, unbelievably, to tell people to take a Northern service over to Carlisle and change there for an Avanti service to London:



Thus causing a delay of over 2¼ hours in passengers' arrival in London. If they had arranged ticket acceptance on the 06:26 LNER service from Edinburgh (08:01 from Newcastle) - as they're legally obliged to do - passengers would suffer just a 1 minute delay. That is bang out of order.

There were seats available to purchase on the 12:30 but I have no idea whether Lumo even asked. Being part of First Group I guess they go for the cheap option of a sister company.

In which case re-routeing should have been arranged on the 12:30.

From the perspective of staff on the station it was shambolic. The train was shown as cancelled a good half hour before any information about alternative travel arrangements was available, and there was no Lumo staff presence on the station.

Yes, having looked at their Twitter, last night at 20:50 they announced the cancellation of this morning's 06:23. Yet information on alternative arrangements were still not available at 22:56, and based on the JourneyCheck update time it looks like the ticket acceptance was only published at 02:32.

The ORR should be coming down like a tonne of bricks on this. Lumo are in daily breach of their SNRP conditions; people are routinely being told they have to fork out £100s extra to get to their destination at anything approaching the time they booked.

I'm curious to know what a "box" is in the context of this thread.

It's equivalent to an X-in-Y rover, i.e. a ticket which is valid on on the dates that you enter. In this particular case it's issued to employees etc. of FirstGroup TOCs and is valid for travel on other FG TOCs.

 

[pdeaves]

I'm curious to know what a "box" is in the context of this thread.

A staff travel pass. There are boxes on it to date for a fixed number of free journeys.

 

[westv]

Aha! Thanks for that

 

[[.n]]

I'm curious to know what a "box" is in the context of this thread.

I assume its a reference to little boxes on a privilege pass that First group employees get to make free/reduced price journeys

whoops - too slow with my reply

 

[800001]

Looking at what's been arranged today for the cancellation of the 06:23 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service, it looks like their default response is, unbelievably, to tell people to take a Northern service over to Carlisle and change there for an Avanti service to London:

View attachment 115884

Thus causing a delay of over 2¼ hours in passengers' arrival in London. If they had arranged ticket acceptance on the 06:26 LNER service from Edinburgh (08:01 from Newcastle) - as they're legally obliged to do - passengers would suffer just a 1 minute delay. That is bang out of order.


In which case re-routeing should have been arranged on the 12:30.


Yes, having looked at their Twitter, last night at 20:50 they announced the cancellation of this morning's 06:23. Yet information on alternative arrangements were still not available at 22:56, and based on the JourneyCheck update time it looks like the ticket acceptance was only published at 02:32.

The ORR should be coming down like a tonne of bricks on this. Lumo are in daily breach of their SNRP conditions; people are routinely being told they have to fork out £100s extra to get to their destination at anything approaching the time they booked.


It's equivalent to an X-in-Y rover, i.e. a ticket which is valid on on the dates that you enter. In this particular case it's issued to employees etc. of FirstGroup TOCs and is valid for travel on other FG TOCs.

Lumo can not automatically reroute the customers on to LNER.
They have to request it, this can be declined due to heavy loadings on LNER services.

For info a lot of the services leaving London today were 80-90% loaded, and some were full on departure.

Why would LNER then accept a train load of Lumo passengers on to there trains, who then go on to occupy the seats, preventing LNER customers from getting seats? And creating a full and standing train.

LNER do help where possible, when the loadings show that they would be able to be accepted.

 

[Watershed]

Lumo can not automatically reroute the customers on to LNER.
They have to request it, this can be declined due to heavy loadings on LNER services.

For info a lot of the services leaving London today were 80-90% loaded, and some were full on departure.

Why would LNER then accept a train load of Lumo passengers on to there trains, who then go on to occupy the seats, preventing LNER customers from getting seats? And creating a full and standing train.

LNER do help where possible, when the loadings show that they would be able to be accepted.

I am not suggesting that LNER have done anything legally wrong. That said, I think it would nevertheless be in their interest to be more helpful to Lumo than they are strictly obliged to be, because the reputation of the rail industry as a whole suffers when people are inconvenienced to such a significant extent.

To the extent there are seats remaining, Lumo should be re-routing its customers onto LNER. It's up to them whether they do so by digitally/physically buying new walkup tickets, or agreeing to reimburse those that customers buy - but the fact that LNER haven't offered to provide blanket acceptance is not an excuse.

For Lumo to suggest that people who have gone and bought new £100+ tickets for LNER are only entitled to a refund of their £30 Lumo ticket, is absolutely unacceptable.

Of course there are instances where not all Lumo passengers will be able to be accommodated on the next service. But there is no way there would have been less than 406 spare seats between the 05:48, 06:26, 06:56 and 07:30 LNER departures from Edinburgh (and equivalent from Newcastle) - each of which would have got Lumo passengers to London an hour before the Avanti service they were told to catch.

 

[800001]

I am not suggesting that LNER have done anything legally wrong. That said, I think it would nevertheless be in their interest to be more helpful to Lumo than they are strictly obliged to be, because the reputation of the rail industry as a whole suffers when people are inconvenienced to such a significant extent.

To the extent there are seats remaining, Lumo should be re-routing its customers onto LNER. It's up to them whether they do so by digitally/physically buying new walkup tickets, or agreeing to reimburse those that customers buy - but the fact that LNER haven't offered to provide blanket acceptance is not an excuse.

For Lumo to suggest that people who have gone and bought new £100+ tickets for LNER are only entitled to a refund of their £30 Lumo ticket, is absolutely unacceptable.

Of course there are instances where not all Lumo passengers will be able to be accommodated on the next service. But there is no way there would have been less than 406 spare seats between the 05:48, 06:26, 06:56 and 07:30 LNER departures from Edinburgh (and equivalent from Newcastle) - each of which would have got Lumo passengers to London an hour before the Avanti service they were told to catch.

You stated LNER or Lumo (not sure which you meant) were legally obliged to get the customers on an LNER service.

You tell Lumo customers they can travel on the next 4 departures from Edinburgh, and 99% will jump on the first available service to leave.

As I said, LNER do, frequently assist Lumo on many occasions.

How ever to note, LNER are assisting massively with support for Grand central, seeing that they are cancelling services left right and centre.
That will be an litter factor in refusing Lumo customers.

There is often a bigger picture to look at than just saying LNER should do more.

 

[Watershed]

You stated LNER or Lumo (not sure which you meant) were legally obliged to get the customers on an LNER service.

Lumo are the ones with the legal obligation. LNER are the ones who would arguably be well-advised to be a little bit more helpful, though no-one can force them to do so.

You tell Lumo customers they can travel on the next 4 departures from Edinburgh, and 99% will jump on the first available service to leave.

So what? How would it be any different if an LNER service were to be cancelled?

The situation will largely regulate itself; if Lumo customers are told that there is acceptance on the next few trains, some people who are unable to find a seat will decide to go back to the platform and board the next train. And those who do not, will have knowingly made that choice. There is no reason is shouldn't be open to them, if arriving in London is time critical.

If LNER wanted to enforce their 'reservations compulsory' flag in the timetable, Lumo could have a member of staff handing out reservations, first come first serve.

There are solutions; it's really not beyond the wit of mankind. It's just that palming people off with a 2-4 hour delay is the easy option.

How ever to note, LNER are assisting massively with support for Grand central, seeing that they are cancelling services left right and centre.
That will be an litter factor in refusing Lumo customers.

There is often a bigger picture to look at than just saying LNER should do more.

Going back to the example from earlier, what would happen if an LNER service were to be cancelled? Or if Lumo said "buy your own tickets, we'll reimburse you" and 400 people bought tickets?

Ultimately when trains are cancelled, someone is always going to lose out. That's life. I'm sure passengers travelling from Edinburgh to Birmingham and Birmingham to London were delighted to find their Avanti train packed.

 

[RollingStock19]

LNER have on many occasions assisted with Lumo, but they charge a set amount whether its 1 passenger or 400 for ticket acceptance. (and its not cheap!) they have also on many occasions refused to assist. They have been a little difficult to deal with sometimes.. I can see why, my ticket this morning to Kings Cross cost £168! Lumo is £69 maximum.

Or even chancing whether the train runs?

Trains aren't just cancelled for the sake of it, as an OA company Lumo rely on bums on seats so cancellation is always a last resort. Oh, and a the trains you stated were cancelled and reinstated. This was due to one of the units getting caught up with a fatality on the southbound journey late in the previous evening rending one of the two units starting in London unavailable.

 

[Haywain]

Oh, and a the trains you stated were cancelled and reinstated.

The 1218 from Kings Cross was not reinstated.

 

[RollingStock19]

The 1218 from Kings Cross was not reinstated.

I know... like I said, only one unit in place to run, so the inbound Edinburgh at 1050 was turned around as the 1045 northbound