• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Luggage on Trains

Status
Not open for further replies.

moonrakerz

Member
Joined
10 Feb 2009
Messages
870
The solution is, at every stop, get up and observe the bag until the train starts moving again. A pain, I know, but less of a pain than losing it, I would submit.

I'm sorry - but..............

are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has a case in the end of car racks gets up at every station and "keeps an eye" on their bags ?? :roll::roll:

I didn't actually propose chaining bags to the rack anyway - I commented on the stupidity of the so-called BTP objections to this on security grounds.

Again - what is the actual risk of having your bag stolen ?

DaveNewcastle summed it up perfectly - people worry about the wrong things, they have no idea of the actual risk of an event occurring. They worry themselves sick about flying from Heathrow to New York, but don't worry in the slightest about driving along the M4 to Heathrow where the risk of being killed is many, many times of that in an aeroplane.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
I was making a suggestion about one way to avoid having your bag stolen off the luggage rack, if people chose to leave it there for up to four hours unobserved and trust to human nature, that's up to them. I don't overly care, it's not my property, and I have no duty of care for it over and above ensuring it is stowed safely and not causing (too much of) an obstruction.

There is a risk of getting them stolen, if you think that the odds are acceptable, than fine, it's a free country. I'm just wondering why some posters appear to be so offended at people saying the risk is there?

To finish, when people come up to me to say their bag has been stolen, I'm not in a position to do a lot more than give them the phone number for BTP so they can get a crime number and claim on their insurance. I'm certainly not going to delay a train to search the train looking for it, or waste my time listening to them bleating about it.
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
I had two passengers whose bags were stolen off the one train on Sunday afternoon. Both (probably) at Cardiff. In both cases, they had been put on diffrent luggage rack, and the passenger then sat with their back to them, in one case they didn't check from getting on to leaving the train. The other chap went to sit in a different carriage with friends.
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
I'm sorry - but..............

are you seriously suggesting that everyone who has a case in the end of car racks gets up at every station and "keeps an eye" on their bags ?? :roll::roll:

I didn't actually propose chaining bags to the rack anyway - I commented on the stupidity of the so-called BTP objections to this on security grounds.

Again - what is the actual risk of having your bag stolen ?

DaveNewcastle summed it up perfectly - people worry about the wrong things, they have no idea of the actual risk of an event occurring. They worry themselves sick about flying from Heathrow to New York, but don't worry in the slightest about driving along the M4 to Heathrow where the risk of being killed is many, many times of that in an aeroplane.

Do you want to re-consider your post from a while ago, in view of this news article?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12267162
CCTV uncovers Cardiff railway luggage thief's disguises

A railway luggage thief, who used a string of disguises to try to throw police off track, was finally caught by CCTV.

Darren Woolnough, 41, walked away with more than £20,000 of stolen luggage after posing as a passenger on south Wales to London services.

He was caught out after "painstaking "police study of CCTV.

Woolnough, of Cardiff, was jailed for 30 months at Cardiff Crown Court.

He wore a different hats, glasses, jackets and shirts to avoid detection at Cardiff Central station.

But the court heard he struck up to three times a day, changing clothes to mingle with commuters at busy Cardiff Central station.

Transport police studied CCTV pictures of the stolen luggage being wheeled away at Cardiff Central station by a series of suspects.
'Unfortunate victims'

But when they took a closer look at the pictures, they realised it was all the same man.

Prosecutor Tony Trigg said: "It was painstaking detective work by British Transport Police, looking though hours of CCTV footage.

"They were able to pinpoint him on the platform each time, sometimes two or three times in a single day.
Darren Woolnough Darren Woolnough's crimes brought 'extreme distress' the court heard

"The unfortunate victims had placed their suitcases in the luggage racks at the end of the carriages.

"When the trains reached Cardiff, he would board and usually get off straight away, with someone's luggage."

Woolnough admitted stealing eight suitcases and asked for six other offences to be taken into account.

The court heard Woolnough had 178 previous offences on his record, including dishonesty and violence

Judge Neil Bidder QC described him as a "compulsive and professional thief."

"Your actions had been extremely upsetting for passengers.

After the case Sgt Dave Goddard said: "Darren Woolnough's crimes caused extreme distress and inconvenience to rail passengers who fell victim to his actions.

"One was a mother travelling with her young child whose luggage containing her child's clothing and feeding equipment was stolen.

"We carried out a thorough investigation and viewing hours of CCTV footage helped lead to Woolnough's arrest and conviction."
 

DaveNewcastle

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2007
Messages
7,387
Location
Newcastle (unless I'm out)
I won't pretend to respond on behalf of moonrakerz, but as (s)he had supported my own comments and opinions on this matter, I have no hesitation into responding to you, flamingo.

Firstly, I want to express sympathy to all victims who have incurred losses as a consequence of that criminal's thefts of personal property on trains.
Secondly, I want to assure you that I fully accept your personal evidence, plus any other reported or anecdotal evidence you have of theft (whether it is actual, prosecuted or merely suspected) during rail travel.
However, there are two further factors for which I would need persuasive evidence before changing my view (as posted above). And they are both questions of proportion.
First, what is the proportionate degree of property theft on the railways (incurred by passengers while on board) in comparison to property theft in all circumstances? [No, I don't know the answer either, but my hunch is that thefts are so widespread that they are occurring in all manner of contexts - while at home, at work, at leisure, at cultural activities and in travel (incl pick pocketing) and during other transactions (incl identity theft), that evidence of one, welcome, prosecution on the railways doesn't help us with the question of proportionality. For all we know, there's more theft of propert from homes while the owners are on trains than there is from folks while they are on trains!.]

Second (and this was the point I, and I think moonrakerz made), how can we put the fear of property loss in an appropriate context to other fears?
The personal experience of just you and I are hardly statistically applicable across all rail travel, but perhaps we can use our experience to help us to look at the bigger picture (where useful evidence might be available - though maybe not!). Lets look at that broader context of hazards and risks which do apply to us all - and which will be statistically available to us? You'll have learned that I don't spend much money nor much anxiety on my possessions (much as I love them!); and that there are people and issues that I care about more.
Since I made my post above about people being more concerned about buying gadgets which help them retain ownership of other gadgets and property than they are about more vital life skills, I will add that in those few months I have incurred losses from two criminal thefts and been adjacent to one persons whose heart stopped beating. I also left my bag unattended on my EC train home tonight while I went to eat.
I make real choices that matter - and stand by my earlier post - my property can be stolen, people's hearts can be assisted to resume beating.
I have prioritised both of those, and its not been difficult.

Can you guess how I'm going to conclude this line of thought? . . .
People who have had property stolen might, and might not, die soon.
Dead people don't care about their stolen bags.
Its been a very easy choice of priority
 
Last edited:

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,873
Location
UK
Lots of things can happen to anyone, but you try and reduce the risks.

I keep my possessions close to me, and that includes things that won't be easily accessible to a pick pocket or someone who tries to distract me. I can also keep an eye on my bag and other possessions and not fall for the tricks of the trade (like someone coming to ask you for help, directions etc while someone else rifles through your bag or takes something obstructed by a map etc).

Thus, if I put my bag out of sight, I'm no longer in control. I am not relying on trust and honesty - and I have no way of knowing who else might be around that takes advantage of that.

Thus, stealing a bag on a train might be low risk - but that's an average. Basically, if nobody intends to steal your bag then it's NO risk. If someone is on the train to steal stuff, it's HIGH risk. How do you know what it will be for you on your next journey?

So, to me, leaving a bag far away is an unacceptable risk even if it's more likely than not it will still be there later on.
 

Broken Viking

On Moderation
Joined
23 Oct 2006
Messages
1,666
Location
some place west of France
I used to worry about losing my luggage, but I am less concerned now. I make sure I place any large items where I can see them, and don;t leave any valuable items in them at all.
As a general rule, I try to travel with as few valuable items as possible to minimise loss to theft or damage. On my last rail journey, my "valuables" (I.E: What could be passed off at the porn shop) amounted to an old-ish mobile, a 2GB MP3 player, a couple of flash drives, and a 40GB external hard-drive. Although the loss of those would've been somewhat inconvenient, it wouldn't have bankrupted me by any means! 8-)

A few simple rules of thumb that I apply when travelling are:
  1. Make sure ye have enough cash available (Or in thy bank account) to buy a couple of changes of clothes and basic toiletries in the event that thy clothing or other essentials get lost or stolen,
  2. Take the oldest and least valuable tech that matches thy needs for the trip to minimise fiscal loss to theft. There's no need to take a £400,- laptop for playing movies on when a £40,- portable DVD player will do the job just as well! :)
  3. If carrying any device with data on, make sure ye have a backup elsewhere...USB pens are surprisingly easy to lose or break!
    (Also: If carrying personal/private data, make sure it's encrypted with at least 256-bit AES. It'd be no fun if ye had some stranger poking around highly personal photos on the SD card that dropped out of thy pocket somewhere around Birmingham NS! :!:)
  4. Unless ye are a budget traveller whose luggage is worth less than his train tickets (And would cost less than a months insurance premium to replace out of thy own pocket) for goodness sake take out travel insurance! :idea:
    (Also; Remember to cover high-value tickets! I'm still fighting to try and get three days of ALR lost to illness back from my trip in 2009CE, and if Id've been covered Id've had a new ALR issued by my insurers for later use during the year on which I could've repeated my trip! :))
The best thing to do is to ensure that your bags are so heavy that it's not possible to either pick them up or carry them off without causing a great deal of noise and fuss! After all, I'm sure thieves prefer small, light and valuable items to a huge case full of dirty clothes!
I used to leave my luggage in the end racks and sit/stand somewhere within direct line of sight to keep an eye on it. Since finding my preference for standing on all journeys though, I tend to keep it on my back at all times. Not only is this marginally more secure*...But bearing the 20+Kg of weight that my bag normally comes to (About 10Kg genuine luggage, and 10+Kg assorted sand/gravel/hardcore for load ballast) for the entire journey not only raises my centre of gravity and makes the bends much easier for me to "feel", but also does a Hellish amount of good for improving physical strength, agility, durability, and the ability to heft heavy weights around for long periods of time! <D

* - Bearing in mind that the outer pockets of my rucksack could easily be opened and dipped from behind without my knowlege - Which is why the only thing I carry in 'em is snacks. Losing a pack of Asda value rich teas won't make my day any worse, after all! :)
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,992
As a general rule, I try to travel with as few valuable items as possible to minimise loss to theft or damage. On my last rail journey, my "valuables" (I.E: What could be passed off at the porn shop) amounted to an old-ish mobile.....

The porn shop? The mind boggles.:lol:
 

andyfrommk

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2011
Messages
202
Since finding my preference for standing on all journeys though, I tend to keep it on my back at all times.]

I like to stand on journeys as well, when I travelled down to Exeter with a huge rucksack I put it on the floor but I put my foot through the strap and stood on it so nobody could filch it while I wasn't looking.
Take the oldest and least valuable tech that matches thy needs for the trip to minimise fiscal loss to theft. There's no need to take a £400,- laptop for playing movies on when a £40,- portable DVD player will do the job just as well!
I've got a Nokia N900 that can play music and video, only one device to look after and that sits in a Maxpedition phone holster which I have trained myself to squeeze occasionaly so I know I haven't lost it, not that the solid buckle will fail or the three belt loops will suddenly come undone.
 

Oswyntail

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2009
Messages
4,183
Location
Yorkshire
.... Since finding my preference for standing on all journeys though, I tend to keep it on my back at all times....
Which means you are less flexible when it comes to moving out of other people's way, and it is harder to attract your attention if i wish to get past you. (Perhaps this should be in the "Train Etiquette" thread?)
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,873
Location
UK
The porn shop? The mind boggles.:lol:

Maybe they would quite like the memory stick though...

If carrying any device with data on, make sure ye have a backup elsewhere...USB pens are surprisingly easy to lose or break!
(Also: If carrying personal/private data, make sure it's encrypted with at least 256-bit AES. It'd be no fun if ye had some stranger poking around highly personal photos on the SD card that dropped out of thy pocket somewhere around Birmingham NS!

:D
 

GodAtum

On Moderation
Joined
11 Dec 2009
Messages
2,684
I try to carry my luggage with me, either by putting it on my lap or under the seat.
 

Broken Viking

On Moderation
Joined
23 Oct 2006
Messages
1,666
Location
some place west of France
The porn shop? The mind boggles.:lol:
Oh dear...Looks like I was thinking of the wrong kind of porn! I meant the kind of porn shop where ye submit items of value as security for loans and other kinds of borrowing! :oops::lol::D

I've got a Nokia N900 that can play music and video, only one device to look after and that sits in a Maxpedition phone holster which I have trained myself to squeeze occasionaly so I know I haven't lost it, not that the solid buckle will fail or the three belt loops will suddenly come undone.
I try to get proper cases with belt clips for all of my phones, and the case for my Motorola c520 works very well for keeping my NEC c313 safe and secure! 8-)

Unfortunateley, the same can't be said for the case I've got for my w200i. The case itself is plastic (Not leather) and thus very flimsy. It also has a really cheap "twist off" belt clip that is so poor in what it does that it almost invites theft! Might explain why I always turn my w200 off and bury it right in the middle of my bag! :|

Which means you are less flexible when it comes to moving out of other people's way, and it is harder to attract your attention if i wish to get past you.
Believe it or not - Despite the bulk of myself and my rucksack (Which totals about 100Kg altogether) - I'm surprisingly agile and inventive when it comes to moving out of other passengers way. 90% of the time, a slight bend of the knees will tuck my bag neatly into the "bulge" created by the trains body profile (On APT-inspired tilters) and allow me to withdraw into roughly the same amount of space occupied by a single Desiro seat! 8-)

And if ye need to get my attention and/or move past, simply tap me on the shoulder - As soon as I see ye there, I'll shift over and let ye through! :)
(As it is, I tend to keep an eye out for oncoming passengers through force of habit. As soon as I see one coming, I often manage to move out of their way well in advance of them getting anywhere near me! :))

Maybe they would quite like the memory stick though... :D
Joking aside, I have found dropped pen drives and SD cards on a couple of occasions. When dumping sectors of the drive to find the rightful owner's details so I can post it back to them (Something I'm always happy to do out of common courtesy) I've come across the most surprising and insecure things. Credit card details (Including PINs) in plain text with no attempt at encryption or even obfuscation seem to be a worryingly common one! :shock:

And before anyone asks: Any data I handle that doesn't belong to me remains strictly confidential, and any local copies of files recovered are securely destroyed (I use a dedicated HDD for such "external" data, which is DBAN'd as frequently as possible) as soon as I've discovered the owners name/address (Or other details through which I can contact them) in line with the Data Protection Act. The only exception would be if I'd ever discovered anything illegal upon such a device, in which case the Police would be informed and all details passed on to them. :)
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,086
Location
Redcar
Looks like I was thinking of the wrong kind of porn! I meant the kind of porn shop where ye submit items of value as security for loans and other kinds of borrowing!

That would be a pawnshop Death ;):lol:
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
Well, I never suggested that there was a link in seriousness between getting killed and having possessions stolen.

If any posters are not that worried about their possessions going missing, that's fine.

But don't say that there is no risk of having luggage stolen just because it does not fit into your personal perception of the world.

I will continue to issue warnings to passengers on my trains, and if it is making them feel alarmed, I'd prefer that than listening to some tourist who is on a holiday in a strange country and has just lost all their possessions, passport and money.
 

Broken Viking

On Moderation
Joined
23 Oct 2006
Messages
1,666
Location
some place west of France
That would be a pawnshop Death ;):lol:
I know, and I was trying to type it like that. Unfortunately, the spell-checker in Firefox had other ideas... :lol:
Yes, though I'd point out that the logo for a pawn shop is some balls dangling on a pole...
Might explain why Firefox keeps correcting it to porn shop! :D
(Any idea what a pornbroker's sign actually represents? Scales might normally come to mind, but the ball in the middle kind of eliminates that interpretation!)
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
Well, I never suggested that there was a link in seriousness between getting killed and having possessions stolen.

If any posters are not that worried about their possessions going missing, that's fine.

But don't say that there is no risk of having luggage stolen just because it does not fit into your personal perception of the world.

I will continue to issue warnings to passengers on my trains, and if it is making them feel alarmed, I'd prefer that than listening to some tourist who is on a holiday in a strange country and has just lost all their possessions, passport and money.

Clearly there is a risk that your possessions could be stolen on a train, but this could happen anywhere. There is nothing wrong with taking sensible precautions to prevent it, or reminding people about those precautions. Particularly if they are tourists!

I don;t let valuables out of my possession but I do use the bagage racks. (if someone stole a bag full of my dirty laundry, it would be incovenenient, but not a total disaster!)
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
Not me. Although it would only be an inconvenience, I could do without the hassle of having to replace my clothing, dirty or not!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top