LU turnbacks

[Jubilee1996]

Does London Underground have a turnback siding, or does the driver just change cabs?

Lots of metro systems have one, but I'm not sure if LU have them.

 

[jopsuk]

Does London Underground have a turnback siding, or does the driver just change cabs?

Lots of metro systems have one, but I'm not sure if LU have them.

Some terminals do, some don't, is perhaps the most helpful I can be. Heathrow Terminal 5 may be the only subbteranean terminus with a reversing platform beyond the platforms. Kennington, on the Northern line, has a reversing loop (no need to change ends) accesible only from the Charing Cross branch. Some of the terminii have depots beyond them, some have a wall at the end of the platform. Some have terminals that resemble mainline stations (Hammersmith, on the H&C, seems to me to have been nicked from a small country, possibly seaside, town).

At peak times on some lines the drivers don't have long enough to fight their way through the crowds to take their train back again, so the driver of the previous train will be waiting to do so.

There is no "Yes or no" answer to your question. If there's a way to arrange and organise a terminus, it probably exists on the Underground network somewhere.

 

[DavyCrocket]

A few for you here, these are just off the top of my head mind (and after a night of signalling some of them!) you see! Some are timetabled or used during late running/disruption.
I won't include the many rarely used moves.

I'll just add that when detraining to go out of service or to a depot or siding or via a [main line] shunt , each car must be checked by the Train Operator and/or Station Staff to ensure that no passengers remain on board. There is one expection to this, Kennington Loop, where is does not have to be, but often is followed.

Amersham, detrain and reverse via sidings north of the station. If running late, can reverse off the platform
Harrow on the Hill (Northbound), detrain, reverse via siding.
Rayners Lane, detrain, reverse via siding. If running late can reverse off the platform.
Ruislip, detrain and reverse via siding far west of the station.
Hillingdon, detrain, reverse via Uxbridge sidings
Uxbridge, reverse in platform
Watford, reverse in platform
Croxley, detrain, reverse via Watford sidings.
Rickmansworth, reverse in platforms or via sidings
Northfields, detrain and reverse via depot or siding or off westbound fast platform back to eastbound fast.
Heathrow T5, detrain and reverse via siding - only way to reverse
Heathrow T123, reverse via platform
Hatton Cross, reverse via platforms
Heathrow Central, reverse via westbound platform
Boston Manor, detrain, reverse via main line shunt to Northfields Depot then to eastbound line
Osterley, detrain, reverse via Northfields Depot
Acton Town, reverse via sidings
Ealing Common, reverse via Ealing Common Depot
South Harrow, reverse in platforms/sidings west to east, or via sidings or main line shunt east to west
Ealing Broadway, reverse in platforms
Hammersmith, reverse in platforms or via siding (and from Barons Court), not from all lines though
West Kensington, east to west in platform, west to east, detrain and mainline shunt
Olympia, reverse in platform
Earls Court, reverse east to west via main line shunt in "The Yard", west to east via platform (not from or to High Street Ken)
High Street Ken, reverse in platform
Gloucester Road, inner to outer via platform, outer to inner via main line shunt
South Kensington, outer to inner via platform, inner to outer via main line shunt
Embankment, outer to inner via platform, inner to outer via main line shunt
Mansion House, east to west only in platform
Tower Hill, east to west only in platform
Edgware Road, both ways, via platforms
Hammersmith (H&C), via platforms, or headshunt siding, detraining at Goldhawk Road
Finchley Road, south to north, detrain and shunt at Swiss Cottage
Wembley Park via Neasden Depot or siding (Jubilee)
Willesden Green (Jubilee) via siding
Neasden (Jubilee) via Neasden depot
Baker Street via platforms, except east to west via main line shunt

That's enough for now!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some terminals do, some don't, is perhaps the most helpful I can be. Heathrow Terminal 5 may be the only subbteranean terminus with a reversing platform beyond the platforms. Kennington, on the Northern line, has a reversing loop (no need to change ends) accesible only from the Charing Cross branch. .

There is also a siding at Kenington.

The loop at Kings Cross Piccadilly is used to reverse Northern trains

Down Street siding, detrain at Green Park or Hyde Park Corner

Victoria siding on the Victoria line

 

[MCR247]

At Amersham, they reversed out of the platforms when I was there, using the far platforms where Chilterns to Aylesbury depart, and the platform next to it. The was there was normally to trains there.

 

[Pumbaa]

Elephant and Castle?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And North Greenwich is reversing out of the platform.

 

[Turbostar]

What about Queen's Park, & Harrow & Wealdstone, on the Bakerloo???

 

[Oracle]

Hounslow Central reversing WB > EB is permitted as a signalled move off the platform.

Acton Town has amongst the 'sidings' a 'turnback' siding between the Fast Heathrow lines.

Barons Court can be used to turnback WB > EB and was used regularly until 1979 on Wood Green - BC shorts. It can also be used to turn back Districts and Piccs WB > EB and Piccs from Hammersmith EB > WB.

 

[DavyCrocket]

Hounslow Central reversing WB > EB is permitted as a signalled move off the platform.

It is indeed. Did I miss that one out?

Acton Town has amongst the 'sidings' a 'turnback' siding between the Fast Heathrow lines.
.

(West)26 Siding. In from Westbound Fast Platform and out to Eastbound Fast or Local Platforms.

East sidings 21 (southern most), 22, 23. In from East Local platform, East Fast platform, West Fast Platform. Out to East Fast platform, West Fast Platform and from 21 siding only - West Local.

D and 73 stock are permitted to use all routes.

 

[jopsuk]

On the odder arrnagements, I think the T4 loop could be regarded as a turnback loop- are there any trains run Leytonstone-Leytonstone via the Hainault loop? Or do the "loop" trains all terminate at Woodford?

 

[clagmonster]

Queens Park, Bakerloo line shunt via the depot.
Harrow & Wealdstone, the vast majority shunt into the turnback. I think there is an early morning/late evening service booked to start southbound from the nortbound platform, and I have seen this done in times of disruption also. But it is rare.
Elephant & Castle, reverse in platform.
North Greenwich, in both directions terminating trains terminate at, and start back from the middle platform. No shunt is involved. Incidentally, while we are on this point, do any scheduled passenger trains terminate at North Greenwich from Stratford, and start at North Greenwich to go to Stratford? Or alternatively, do any through trains use the middle platform?

 

[DavyCrocket]

On the odder arrnagements, I think the T4 loop could be regarded as a turnback loop-

I would imagine so, unless the train then goes to T5!

 

[Pumbaa]

Incidentally, while we are on this point, do any scheduled passenger trains terminate at North Greenwich from Stratford, and start at North Greenwich to go to Stratford? Or alternatively, do any through trains use the middle platform?

No - apart from late night events at the O2, where I believe they will run extra services from North Greenwich to connect to Eurostar/HS1 at Stratford.

At current, the only trains that terminate at Nrth Greenwich come from Stanmore.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Just to go way OT, an interesting subway system to look at for turnbacks is in Montréal. Because the métro was built with many ambitious plans for extensions, I believe every terminus station has been constructed as a standard two track through station, with either a depot or dead end turning tunnel beyond the station. In every case an inbound train discharges its passengers on the inbound platform (which, with great foresight, were often built with waiting benches in anticipation of extensions beyond that point!), then moves forward into the dead end tunnel to reverse, pass over the turn back and emerge on the other platform. At peak times a second driver will board at the rear of an inbound train to make the turnaround quicker; on the blue line where trains are normally three cars during the offpeak the driver can walk the length of his train himself.

At Saint-Michel, for instance, I believe the blue line tunnel continues almost far enough to reach the most likely site of the next station in the long proposed extension of that line; certainly long enough for one or two three car sets to be stabled out of use without blocking the turnback.

Snowdon is an interesting example; it's the terminus at the opposite end of the blue line. Like the much busier interchange at Lionel-Groulx, two lines meet by lifting one track from each above the other, to create an anti-directional stacked interchange. In this case, the empty train progresses into a turnback tunnel (the beginning of the stillborn West Island extension) and then returns to the platform below it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdon_(Montreal_Metro)

Lots more on this beauitful métro (every station is different, and every station has its integreated art work) here:
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/index-e.html

 

[Oracle]

Wood Green is arguably a turnback siding, now used when the service is up the wall it seems.

 

[vitesse]

What about Queen's Park, & Harrow & Wealdstone, on the Bakerloo???

I'm pretty sure LU can do pretty much the same moves as LO do on the DC Route. I have known LU trains to reverse at Kilburn High Road (it's not a station normally served by LU) and has 3rd/4th rail to allow for this, rather than taking the junction indicator on approach, gets a main aspect only and goes into the UP DC platform, then goes empty to Kilburn, change ends and floor mounted main aspect clears taking it wrong road to a crossover, then into the Down DC platform at queens park. This was used a few months back when a bakerloo failed at queens park preventing trains accessing the tunnel since I was sat behind one for about 30 minutes en-route to Euston

Willesden Jn, can change ends and reverse from either platform except the bay as its too short to accomodate an LU train.

And on the District, Gunnersbury has a wrong road starter on the Down platform allowing both LU and LO trains to reverse.

 

[madannie77]

Only just joined the forum, so a bit late on this thread:

I recall, from my time in London in the mid 90s, noting turn back sidings at Wood Green and between Green Park and Hyde Park Corner on the Piccadilly line, Tooting, Colindale and Kennington on the Northern Line and Marble Arch on the Central Line. My Quail LT trackmap (1995 edition) shows others, but I have no recollection of these. I don't recall any being used very often when I was down in London.