LU Alcohol Ban Anomaly

[Mutant Lemming]

I was at Faringdon waiting for a NB 'Thameslink' service and as you often find a lot of people tend to ignore the ban but one man waited until the train came in and then opened his can of lager once on the train (the train being held there a few minutes for one thing or another). Was he right to be drinking at Faringdon - an LU station when he was on board an FCC train ?

 

[jon0844]

I'd have thought he's fine - and fair play to him for waiting until he got on!

Clearly this comment doesn't address the actual legal situation, but I doubt that would ever come up as I'm not sure how strict they'd enforce the rule even on a LU train. At most, someone would tell you to stop drinking and probably little more.

 

[yorkie]

There are no restrictions applicable to FCC services (unless a specific ban is enforced e.g. due to a football fixture - not sure if that ever happens on FCC services, but it does on some operators).

 

[Mutant Lemming]

There is some kind of ban at St.Albans station. Am wondering if the same applies (i.e.you can't drink on the platform but can drink on the train).

 

[142094]

No ban at Notting Hill for the Carnival a few weeks ago it seemed - plenty of Red Stripe and rum going around.

 

[trentside]

In my experience, there seems to be little enforcement of the alcohol ban on LU.

I'm not blaming the staff for this. Quite frankly, it was always going to be a difficult ban to enforce - especially given that people who've indulged a little too much are much more likely to become aggressive and abusive.

 

[DavyCrocket]

In my experience, there seems to be little enforcement of the alcohol ban on LU.

I'm not blaming the staff for this. Quite frankly, it was always going to be a difficult ban to enforce - especially given that people who've indulged a little too much are much more likely to become aggressive and abusive.

Even the BTP don't bother any more. It was just a headline grabbing mission for a problem that didn't exist and the incidents that did occur could be dealt with under existing byelaws or laws!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Anyone who is unfortunate enough to have use a nightbus in London needs a drink to cope with the experience.

 

[Deerfold]

Anyone who is unfortunate enough to have use a nightbus in London needs a drink to cope with the experience.

Sounds like you're been unlucky.

I often catch night buses and most are entirely uneventful. The only one that was annoying recently was a man who got on the bus and said he wasn't going to pay and then started being abusive to the driver when told the bus wouldn't go anywhere until he had. As it was a N73 the chap could have probably got on without paying with no problem unless there were RPIs. As it was we sat for about 15 minutes until he was escorted off by police (well about 25% of us did - the rest popped out onto buses behind us). However most of the ones I get are in North or Central London

On topic - I seem to see about the same level of drinking on the underground as before the ban - but the notices aren't very noticeable.

 

[jon0844]

I am surprised the bus waited, given drivers are usually told to let people travel for free if they refuse (which, obviously, encourages them to do it again).

The seventy-free is no longer run with bendy buses (where the passenger could have presumably boarded via the middle or end doors and been just fine) but I'm not sure if the N73 was a bendy or not?

I've got on at the front of a 73 and not shown/swiped my ticket and never had any problems. I've got a season and if you don't need to scan via the other doors, I don't (didn't) bother at the front. Never had anything said to me.

 

[Deerfold]

The seventy-free is no longer run with bendy buses (where the passenger could have presumably boarded via the middle or end doors and been just fine) but I'm not sure if the N73 was a bendy or not?

No it's no longer bendy. The N73 was one of the few nightbuses which were bendy (along with the 25 and 29).

I've got on at the front of a 73 and not shown/swiped my ticket and never had any problems. I've got a season and if you don't need to scan via the other doors, I don't (didn't) bother at the front. Never had anything said to me.

That's fine. You only need to show the driver if you have a saver ticket. You only need to touch in on Oyster PAYG. If you've a paper or Oyster season you don't need to do anything. If he hadn't said anything when he got one noone would have ever known in all likelyhood.

 

[jon0844]

If you get on the 73 now it's a normal bus and have a season, you'll presumably be expected to touch in and called back if you don't?

Isn't it a bit odd to have two different ways of operating? I would have thought you would be asked to show the driver on a bendy when boarding at the front simply to be consistent. It's obviously convenient not to have to bother getting your ticket out when you know you're 'legal and above board' but you can't do that on all buses.

 

[Deerfold]

If you get on the 73 now it's a normal bus and have a season, you'll presumably be expected to touch in and called back if you don't?

Isn't it a bit odd to have two different ways of operating? I would have thought you would be asked to show the driver on a bendy when boarding at the front simply to be consistent. It's obviously convenient not to have to bother getting your ticket out when you know you're 'legal and above board' but you can't do that on all buses.

Well they're being consistent between doors on a bendy...

I think the policy was to be moving towards having fewer checks but increasingly harsh penalty fares but that seem to have been reversed (along wiht finally stopping accepting cash on London buses which pops up every few years. The 73 accepts cash again for most of its route with the ticket machines at stops outside central London having been removed).

 

[rmt-driver]

What about kew gardens station? Is a network rail owned station on a NR running line, but LUL now manage the station therefore alcohol is banned... But there is a pub on the platform

 

[announcements]

I saw some guys on the District line the other day, each with cans of lager covered up by opaque plastic bags. Obviously aware of the ban otherwise they wouldn't have taken the precaution!

 

[313103]

The N73 was never a Bendy bus route. It has always been a double deck route, Even though the bendys carried N73 blinds. The N73 was scheduled to have the VLW type vehicle. If the N73 did have bendys on them they never went the whole route upto Walthamstow Central. So if they did appear it was a very rare occasion. Plus the fact that Tottenham Garage (AR) opearted the N73 and some depot near Northumberland Park (coded LV) operated the bendy 73 along with the 149. Not sure what vehicle they have since the day 73 was reconverted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about kew gardens station? Is a network rail owned station on a NR running line, but LUL now manage the station therefore alcohol is banned... But there is a pub on the platform

Oh yes but the access to the platform was closed when barriers were installed so in theory the pub is adjacent to the staion rather then being as part of the station. To access the pub one has to go on to the street outside the station.

 

[Deerfold]

The N73 was never a Bendy bus route. It has always been a double deck route, Even though the bendys carried N73 blinds. The N73 was scheduled to have the VLW type vehicle. If the N73 did have bendys on them they never went the whole route upto Walthamstow Central. So if they did appear it was a very rare occasion. Plus the fact that Tottenham Garage (AR) opearted the N73 and some depot near Northumberland Park (coded LV) operated the bendy 73 along with the 149. Not sure what vehicle they have since the day 73 was reconverted.

Oops. Looks like I wasn't travelling as late as I thought I was - they were just late 73s I was getting (the day route runs until nearly 2am on parts of the route) and then transferring onto a night route.

Yes, the 73 is run by Stamford Hill (SF) since the change having moved from Lee Valley.

The night route has also moved to SF so it can *now* use the same vehicles.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

What about kew gardens station? Is a network rail owned station on a NR running line, but LUL now manage the station therefore alcohol is banned... But there is a pub on the platform

It must be the only one left and even then it's inherited.
I recall when it was possible to have three pints in different bars without leaving the Circle Line - with the bar on the platform at Sloane Square in the running for being London's smallest pub.

 

[W-on-Sea]

@Mutant Lemming,

Three bars on the Circle Line: I too remember the one at Sloane Square (tho I was too young to drink then) - the "treats" store is a poor replacement. I vaguely recall one at Liverpool Street, too - but where was the third? My guess would be Baker Street, but I can't picture it... so please do enlighten us!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

@Mutant Lemming,

My guess would be Baker Street, but I can't picture it... so please do enlighten us!

Your guess would be correct - at the top of the steps from platform 5 to your right what is now a shop (think it used to be another 'Treats' or maybe still is) was Moriarty's.

Rumour has it - pure urban myth of course - that a certain H & C driver, sadly no longer with us, would pick up a pint at Moriarty's exchange the glass for a fresh pint from the bar on the platform at Liverpool St, stop short (with his guard cutting out the rear doors at Sloane Sq) to exchange it for another.
You know how these silly myths get somehow enhanced over the years, as I'm sure you know that even in the days prior to unannounced testing such things never happened on the railway.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Anyone who is unfortunate enough to have use a nightbus in London needs a drink to cope with the experience.

i know

 

[Class377/5]

I was at Faringdon waiting for a NB 'Thameslink' service and as you often find a lot of people tend to ignore the ban but one man waited until the train came in and then opened his can of lager once on the train (the train being held there a few minutes for one thing or another). Was he right to be drinking at Faringdon - an LU station when he was on board an FCC train ?

I'd have thought he's fine - and fair play to him for waiting until he got on!

Clearly this comment doesn't address the actual legal situation, but I doubt that would ever come up as I'm not sure how strict they'd enforce the rule even on a LU train. At most, someone would tell you to stop drinking and probably little more.

Actually no he's not fine. One of the issue brought up was th fact you can drink on the train at Farringdon but not on the platform.

Farringdon is an LUL station so there is a ban in place on drinking. Whether or not people know this fact is very different.

Going to get a lot messier come the new ticket hall that will link to Thameslink (ok for drinking) and Crossrail (where drinking is banned).

The idea of banning booze is a ok one but in practice it just doesn't work.

 

[Deerfold]

Actually no he's not fine. One of the issue brought up was th fact you can drink on the train at Farringdon but not on the platform.

Erm, isn't that what he was doing? So he *is* fine?

 

[jon0844]

And what is actually going to happen if you're 'caught' anyway? Locked up, criminal record, or asked nicely to stop - perhaps pouring/throwing it away. Hardly a big deal.

I doubt anyone has been given a penalty, or at least not if they comply straight away. It would be different if you waited until staff/BTP left and had another drink having been warned once.

 

[fIIsion]

The alcohol ban is a complete joke; nothing more than a meaningless political gesture with litlle regard to how it was going to be enforced.

Every weekend (and weekdays too) I see people drinking from beer cans, spirit bottles; one chap even had a pint glass from a pub which was raised in my direction as I stopped the train in the platform.

A few weeks ago, on a monday morning, there were three male passengers drinking beer. I informed them about the ban and was told to F... Off and drive train. The controller was more intrested in the train moving than calling the BTP..........whats the point

I don't bother now

 

[jon0844]

The ban is probably a good idea, and I am sure that a lot of people (myself included) who may have had a drink now won't.

But a lack of enforcement (or backup in your case) for the others is what makes it fail.. although I am sure it's had some effect.

 

[Class377/5]

Erm, isn't that what he was doing? So he *is* fine?

No, as I said he's not fine. The 'boarder' between FCC & LUL at Farringdon is the train door (for now). He should/could be challenged at any point once off the train.

Just to show how unworkable this rule is, come the new ITH at Farringdon which opens around December, you can enter one entrance to Farringdon drinking but not the other (as the booking hall will be Thameslink not Crossrail's) but once you head down the escalators from the platform level to Crossrail you're then back in the ban part.

Simply put this ban is unworkable and was done as a knee jerk reaction by Boris.

 

[Greenback]

I agree that the alcohol ban was introduced for political reasons, but I feel it does have some use.

We have a ban on some of the local streets here. Yes, it is flouted but it is a useful weapon when there are people congregating at bus stops or benches swigging from cans and bottles. Police can and do remove the alcohol in these circumstances. The people who like to congregate, who are normalyl from the nearby hostels and shelters, know this and are less likely to do it, particularly if they know there are patrols in the area.

I think the real idea behind the LUL ban is similar. It is a deterrent, and it's a tool that can be used to prevent groups of high spirited drinkers intimidating other passengers,

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The Canadian model for urban transport should be introduced - I was thrown off a bus in Vancouver for taking a bite out of a pizza. 'No food on the bus man !' - and was pointed to a list of banned activities on public transport. Am happy to abide as long as all the things that annoy me are also banned. The red circled activities included eating, drinking, making phone calls, listening to personal stereos, skateboarding, roller blading, too much horseflesh on show, loud shirts... etc etc and just about anything that would annoy your fellow passenger. Woe betide even thinking about consuming alcohol on board - moose hunting rifles are okay as long as they aren't pointed directly at anyone.

 

[fIIsion]

From my observation, nothing has really changed since the ban was introduced.
While there might be some individuals who have adhered to the ban, on the whole those who chose to drink, continue to do so.

There was never any training or (as far as I'm aware) any acutal procedure for staff to deal with passengers drinking on LUL property.
LUL in fact discourage its staff for putting themselves into situations that can result in assault; mainly to keep to attendence targets.

Police presence helps but they are so few in numbers and there are more serious problems to deal with then chase after people consuming alcohol.

Personally I would like to see a complete ban on food and drink on the underground (throw in the free newspapers as well) but I just do not see how this is going to be possible given the limitations of staff, police manpower and the attitude of the travelling public.