Lower Thames Crossing - Missed Opportunity?

[DerekC]

I wonder if I am alone in wondering whether the new Lower Thames Crossing (east of Gravesend to east of Tilbury) is a missed opportunity for rail? Probably not a lot of use for channel tunnel freight because it does more or less the same as HS1, short of a new link to the Midlands & North. However a good rail link between Essex and Kent might spark some interesting local and regional development. Currently there is no alternative to road if you want to travel from Kent to anywhere north of the Thames and east of Tower Bridge.

 

[wls1]

I would prefer a rail crossing as it can connect to other locations in the UK, however I strongly oppose the Thames crossing and especially route C that they chose as I live in Thurrock which will be most affected by the crossing.

At the moment the ways for people to get across the Thames are over the Dartford crossing and with the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry which has its steady flow of people. Because of this, I don't really think that a lot of people would change from their ferry or car journey to walk or drive to a train station and get the train across the river then be unable to get to where they need to be, if not near Gravesend or Dartford and get there a lot later.

 

[brad465]

Being from Dartford way I oppose the crossing altogether as there is some nice land that would be affected, and based on this story I heard a while back apparently new roads make traffic worse:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39328643

New roads in England not only fail to ease congestion and benefit local economies but worsen traffic, countryside campaigners warn.

Road-building also "obliterates" rural views and harms nature, the Campaign to Protect Rural England says.

Rail crossings I think don't harm as much as roads for sake of size and amount of noise, but I don't think they would find a benefit for a rail crossing when all the thinking seems to be road. :cry:

 

[Antman]

I would prefer a rail crossing as it can connect to other locations in the UK, however I strongly oppose the Thames crossing and especially route C that they chose as I live in Thurrock which will be most affected by the crossing.

At the moment the ways for people to get across the Thames are over the Dartford crossing and with the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry which has its steady flow of people. Because of this, I don't really think that a lot of people would change from their ferry or car journey to walk or drive to a train station and get the train across the river then be unable to get to where they need to be, if not near Gravesend or Dartford and get there a lot later.

Isn't the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry a bit unreliable? I seem to recall regular cancellations when I last travelled on it although that was a few years ago. I often travel from Ashford to Chelmsford and whilst HS1 has made it easier it still means going to Stratford which is not exactly as the crow would fly.

 

[talldave]

Isn't the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry a bit unreliable? I seem to recall regular cancellations when I last travelled on it although that was a few years ago. I often travel from Ashford to Chelmsford and whilst HS1 has made it easier it still means going to Stratford which is not exactly as the crow would fly.

It does seem to get random days of cancellation, but there's a different operator/vessel taking over from May.

As for the road crossing, we just need to get on and start building it. The debate should be about the next crossing after that. This is the problem with UK infrastructure projects, we spend too long cogitating - meanwhile some of us have to live in gridlock.

 

[Class 170101]

Have to say looking at Option C that appears to have been chosen that appears to be one major fatal flaw. It returns to the M25 on its northern exit between Junctions 29 and 30, surely this will become the pinch point instead?

 

[wls1]

Returning to the m25 will just make it more congested, not at the existing crossing but further up the motorway. Not helping the traffic problems they tried to fix with a new crossing just moving the problem.

The gravesend ferry only really fails once in every 2-3 weeks or when its windy or rainy. c2c and southeastern usually accept tickets meaning they get a diversion through central london.

 

[telstarbox]

I would have thought that most Kent-Essex rail demand is met by the Ebbsfleet to Stratford Intl connection (plus Crossrail when it opens).

 

[NotATrainspott]

Trains are only worthwhile when using a car is impractical for a journey. That includes most commuting between and into city centres plus travelling within a dense urban environment. It doesn't include journeys like Kent to Essex, really. If someone did need to travel from Ashford to Norwich then the frequent change at Stratford between fast London services is better than a necessarily slower and less frequent direct service.

 

[Mikey C]

The majority of people in the Dartford area are heavily in favour of the new crossing, the present reality is that a breakdown on accident around the Northbound tunnels leads to complete gridlock in Dartford as traffic diverts through the town, and this gives an alternative route and needed extra capacity.

I can't see much demand for a rail crossing there, the road crossing is primarily for through traffic, not Kent Essex local traffic, and anyone from Kent going north by rail would find it easier to use HS1 to St Pancras for onward rail connections. With HS1 and Crossrail, DLR and a possible additional overground or DLR crossing to Thamesmead, the busier London section of the Thames is well catered for by public transport anyway.