Low pressure sox lighting

[route101]

Very much the case now everywhere I’d like to have a idea of where still uses sox, I’d travel to see some!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==


must agree!!

Glasgow is probably the city with the most SOX left.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==

Glasgow is probably the city with the most SOX left.

Only applies to Glasgow City Council Area. The other councils were sharper to get rid of SOX , South Lanarkshire in particular.

 

[billh]

Saddleworth TV transmitter relay station had 2 SOX lamps on the outside of the building. A few months ago , one of them failed and has not been repaired. There's just the one now but it can be seen from miles around , being on the top of a hill.

 

[AM9]

Goodness me! My memory is better than I thought it was!

I seem to have a good mental picture of the environment during my childhood, - but I have frequently forgotten what it was my wife asked me to get whilst shopping the day before!

 

[philthetube]

Colne (Lancs,) used to have fluorescent tubes all the way up the main road from the station to the top of town, on a dead straight road it looked impressive.

 

[jon0844]

I really miss the orange streetlamps - so calming.

I think that's a fair comment, which is why I like the warm white setting on my home bulbs a lot of the time, but they were pretty useless. I still walk through some private or non-adopted areas which have them and it's very hard to see, and of course many are either not working or don't/can't warm up and are just giving out a few lumens of red light that's no use to anyone.

I suppose you can get multicolour LED bulbs and mimic the orangey glow in your own home for nostalgia purposes! In fact, I've seen some bulbs that are almost identical in colour but intended to look like candles inside a desk lamp. While they often flicker by default, I'm sure they can be set to fixed on.

 

[AY1975]

I imagine this topic has been discussed at length somewhere on SABRE: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

And in a few places in this long-running and now locked "Things you don't see outside any more" thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/things-you-don’t-see-outside-any-more.226622/

Very much the case now everywhere I’d like to have a idea of where still uses sox, I’d travel to see some!

There are still a few (or were until recently) in Matlock and Bakewell, Derbyshire. There are some near the cricket ground in Matlock, just past Hall Leys Park.

The London Borough of Sutton also still had a few when I was last there in May of this year. There's one just outside Carshalton station.

The London Borough of Wandsworth replaced most if not all of its SOX lamps with "pink lamps" (which themselves have now largely been replaced by LED lamps) in the late 1980s and early 90s, but to this day there is still one of the old style concrete lampposts with a question mark shaped bracket at the top and a SOX lamp (albeit no longer working) on Putney Park Lane on the Dover House Estate in Putney, probably dating from the 1950s or 60s (the lamp, that is, not the estate!). I'm guessing that it has either been deliberately left in situ as a historic relic or Wandsworth Council just forgot to remove it and have overlooked the fact that it's still there.

 

[nw1]

LEDs are more efficient than SOX. Say 50-100%. By itself, worth having. @John Webb has listed some other advantages. Here are a few more:

The smaller LED luminaires are cheaper to make. Unlike SOX, LED is close to a 'point source', which allows for much better control over where the light falls. That in turn allows lower output lamps to be used for the same design lighting levels.

The only people I know in favour of SOX are astronomers.

Curiously, the current Scottish Power green energy 'Bumper Car' TV advert finishes with a street light that looks very SOX.

Indeed, and also on the photo is a "heritage" concrete column which would have been old even in the late 1970s. Is this contemporary?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

I think I've seen fluorescent tube street lamps somewhere abroad, but cannot remember where. It seems to me to be a bit of an odd choice though - unless you can get "special" tubes, standard T5/T8 tubes aren't especially bright, particularly short ones...

The whole of Hampshire, Surrey, West Sussex and Dorset seems to have gone with a fluorescent tube design, from what I can see, for its residential streets. Came in between 2010 and 2015.
LED lights are still a relative rarity here.

As noted by others, fluorescent lights are not new, though. I remember in the very late 70s and early 80s fluorescent lighting on main roads, usually atop quite old concrete columns, being commonplace in London and some seaside resorts. I seem to remember Regent Street having them circa December 1979, for example, and Exhibition Road in 1980. I also remember seeing them in Bognor in the early 80s, and a Flickr photo from the late 70s shows it was present in one street in Shanklin.
Also the Isle of Wight used to have smaller fluorescent lights in the late 70s and 80s on side streets (on quite modern columns, so presumably 1970s heritage), right up to about 1990 - it was still present when I visited Ryde on New Years' Day 1989 and still there I think one year later when I took a bus tour of the island.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

I'm sure I've worded it right but please correct me if not!

I come across a Facebook page recently in relation to low sodium sox lighting across the UK, it was by total surprise. Its not something I have ever searched for til then, but I looked and it really bought me back to my younger years as a child. Being outside til dark and having a constant orange glow across the streets, which I remember coming through the house at night, something which is now almost completely gone with the replacement of LED fixtures and modern lighting assets, everything now being very very bright, and white!

I do a lot of driving at night (as a rail worker) and have since been keeping an eye out for any estates or lanes along my route to see if any remain and I've actually come across none, though there is one single lamppost I am aware of in a local village with a old low sodium fixture still in situ and working, though all the others around it have been replaced.

It has made me wonder, when was the big push for lighting upgrades accross England? Was it a sudden push for all councils to get this done around the same time or has it just been a slow upgrade which has happened without me realising?

Any info or discussions would be welcome, even story's or photos!

In my experience the big replacement was 2010-15.

Even in the late 00s Hampshire still had yellow (low pressure sodium) lights all over the place, mixed with newer pink high pressure sodium lights. But by 2015 almost all had gone. Even in 2013 they were scarce though I do remember some authorities (Croydon being one) still had them in large numbers.
Northern Ireland seemed to keep them longer, I visited in 2018 and they were still very common over there.

Sadly missed, I used to love the atmosphere of it going dark and them lighting up, first as red before going yellow.

Bringing in my irrational and romantic hat here for a minute, I miss them in the same way as other things that were a feature of my childhood, youth, and even 30s, such as Calshot Power Station (yes, really), gasometers (yes, really, again - are any still about?), the UK being in the EEC/EU (less irrational and romantic and more pragmatic and rational with that one), CIGs and VEPs, loco-hauled XC trains, and long-distance road travel by single-carriageway A-roads.

Furthermore, not only did the yellow sodium lights go then, the mercury lights disappeared too (still common in places in the late 00s) and even the more modern, pinkish high-pressure sodium lighting that first came in around the end of the 70s and became very common in the 90s and 00s also went - despite much of it being not very old. Struggling to even find the "pink" high-pressure sodium fittings now, let alone the classic yellow lights.

On a related note, are there still pockets of "heritage" wrought-iron or concrete lamp-posts around, even if they now bear LED or other modern lights? They, too, seem to have gone,
Unlike other phases of light replacement, the columns themselves all went in 2010-15 round here, bar a very small number of streets. Contrast that to the late 80s and 90s practice of retaining the heritage columns and merely replacing the light fitting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

Glasgow is probably the city with the most SOX left.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==


Only applies to Glasgow City Council Area. The other councils were sharper to get rid of SOX , South Lanarkshire in particular.

Actually, what about Liverpool? Just remembered that there was still lots left in 2018, the last time I saw them in any great quantity in mainland GB.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

How many here remember the mercury lights with their blu-green light. In the London area, the seemed to prevalent on trolleybus routes, and we're replaced by sodium lights at about the same time that the overhead lines were removed.

I remember mercury well, for they were still extremely common on residential roads in the 80s and 90s and even in some areas to the late 00s.

What I don't remember though, is mercury on main roads. Not in the UK, anyway, though remember France still had quite a bit in the 80s. When was mercury on main roads last common? I'd guess 60s, based on old photos I have seen.

As late as 2013 Cauterets, France (in the Pyrenees) had areas of mercury lighting on smaller roads. Not sure about the UK, though.

Flickr is quite good for this sort of thing I've found - have been using it mostly to view buses of the NBC and early privatisation era, but you get to see other features of late-20th-century townscapes from the same photos.

 

[AM9]

Indeed, and also on the photo is a "heritage" concrete column which would have been old even in the late 1970s. Is this contemporary?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==



The whole of Hampshire, Surrey, West Sussex and Dorset seems to have gone with a fluorescent tube design, from what I can see, for its residential streets. Came in between 2010 and 2015.
LED lights are still a relative rarity here.

As noted by others, fluorescent lights are not new, though. I remember in the very late 70s and early 80s fluorescent lighting on main roads, usually atop quite old concrete columns, being commonplace in London and some seaside resorts. I seem to remember Regent Street having them circa December 1979, for example, and Exhibition Road in 1980. I also remember seeing them in Bognor in the early 80s, and a Flickr photo from the late 70s shows it was present in one street in Shanklin.
Also the Isle of Wight used to have smaller fluorescent lights in the late 70s and 80s on side streets (on quite modern columns, so presumably 1970s heritage), right up to about 1990 - it was still present when I visited Ryde on New Years' Day 1989 and still there I think one year later when I took a bus tour of the island.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==



In my experience the big replacement was 2010-15.

Even in the late 00s Hampshire still had yellow (low pressure sodium) lights all over the place, mixed with newer pink high pressure sodium lights. But by 2015 almost all had gone. Even in 2013 they were scarce though I do remember some authorities (Croydon being one) still had them in large numbers.
Northern Ireland seemed to keep them longer, I visited in 2018 and they were still very common over there.

Sadly missed, I used to love the atmosphere of it going dark and them lighting up, first as red before going yellow.

Bringing in my irrational and romantic hat here for a minute, I miss them in the same way as other things that were a feature of my childhood, youth, and even 30s, such as Calshot Power Station (yes, really), gasometers (yes, really, again - are any still about?), the UK being in the EEC/EU (less irrational and romantic and more pragmatic and rational with that one), CIGs and VEPs, loco-hauled XC trains, and long-distance road travel by single-carriageway A-roads.

Furthermore, not only did the yellow sodium lights go then, the mercury lights disappeared too (still common in places in the late 00s) and even the more modern, pinkish high-pressure sodium lighting that first came in around the end of the 70s and became very common in the 90s and 00s also went - despite much of it being not very old. Struggling to even find the "pink" high-pressure sodium fittings now, let alone the classic yellow lights.

On a related note, are there still pockets of "heritage" wrought-iron or concrete lamp-posts around, even if they now bear LED or other modern lights? They, too, seem to have gone,
Unlike other phases of light replacement, the columns themselves all went in 2010-15 round here, bar a very small number of streets. Contrast that to the late 80s and 90s practice of retaining the heritage columns and merely replacing the light fitting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==



Actually, what about Liverpool? Just remembered that there was still lots left in 2018, the last time I saw them in any great quantity in mainland GB.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==



I remember mercury well, for they were still extremely common on residential roads in the 80s and 90s and even in some areas to the late 00s.

What I don't remember though, is mercury on main roads. Not in the UK, anyway, though remember France still had quite a bit in the 80s. When was mercury on main roads last common? I'd guess 60s, based on old photos I have seen.

As late as 2013 Cauterets, France (in the Pyrenees) had areas of mercury lighting on smaller roads. Not sure about the UK, though.

Flickr is quite good for this sort of thing I've found - have been using it mostly to view buses of the NBC and early privatisation era, but you get to see other features of late-20th-century townscapes from the same photos.

My memories of the roads fanning out eastwards from London are centered around the A118. The route was based on an ancient and roman road to East Anglia which was by passed through the outer boroughs of the LCC area and the developing suburban Essex countryside by what was known locally as the Southend Arterial road. Thus by the fifties, it became a busy, but by modern standards, is about the same as the Station Roads, and London Roads of towns and cities throughout England. That made it suitable in general terms for trolleybus routes which survived until about 1960, serving various high streets, parks and of course the stations as far as Chadwell Heath on the GEML. So with the closing years of trolleybus services, the mercury lighting conveniently bolted onto the green overhead wiring poles provided the blue-green light along the way. Where sodium lighting had been installed near the A118, the yellow contrast with the blue-green was very marked.

 

[nw1]

On a related topic, I've noticed that low-pressure sodium was rare in other countries when it was common here in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

Ireland had a lot, but Ireland's street lighting in general seems to be the same range of styles as ours.

Outside the UK and Ireland I've seen occasional orange lighting in Belgium and very specifically, in San Jose, California.
Haven't seen it anywhere else, though, in a range of continental countries plus the USA and Canada.

What about former UK-controlled areas like Hong Kong (which I know used to have UK-style road signs)? Or other UK overseas territories some of which still are UK owned?

What about countries entirely independent from UK and Ireland?

And on another piece of street lighting geekery, do any other countries share our practice of numbering individual street lights? Ireland do, but aside from that I've just seen very isolated cases in France and Germany. Bavaria seems to do it more than other parts. How long have we in the UK adopted that practice?

 

[Ediswan]

Indeed, and also on the photo is a "heritage" concrete column which would have been old even in the late 1970s. Is this contemporary?

The ad is current, posted to YouTube 7th Oct. Where they got the images from is anybody's guess.

 

[Buzby]

Not mentioned so far was the change to billing for the streetlights supply. Originally this was a flat fee ISTR based on the number of lamp heads active in the council area, and wasn’t metered in any way. The council received a flat rate annual bill which was added to their various other costs to be recovered from residents in the usual way.

The Elec Co’s wanted this ‘public supply’ scheme changed and the arrival of LEDs I gather was the catalyst for the ending of the earlier arrangement.

 

[route101]

On a related topic, I've noticed that low-pressure sodium was rare in other countries when it was common here in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

Ireland had a lot, but Ireland's street lighting in general seems to be the same range of styles as ours.

Outside the UK and Ireland I've seen occasional orange lighting in Belgium and very specifically, in San Jose, California.
Haven't seen it anywhere else, though, in a range of continental countries plus the USA and Canada.

What about former UK-controlled areas like Hong Kong (which I know used to have UK-style road signs)? Or other UK overseas territories some of which still are UK owned?

What about countries entirely independent from UK and Ireland?

And on another piece of street lighting geekery, do any other countries share our practice of numbering individual street lights? Ireland do, but aside from that I've just seen very isolated cases in France and Germany. Bavaria seems to do it more than other parts. How long have we in the UK adopted that practice?

Yes, Ireland is quite similar to Glasgow area lighting with it being on wires.

Netherlands used or still uses SOX lighting.

 

[nw1]

Yes, Ireland is quite similar to Glasgow area lighting with it being on wires.

Wires - do you mean attached/affixed to electricity poles? Or suspended above the street on a wire from metal poles either side?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

Netherlands used or still uses SOX lighting.

Ah ok, within the Netherlands I've only visited Amsterdam (2009 and 2014) and didn't see any SOX there but I guess the very big cities are more likely to replace quickly. I think it was mostly the pink high-pressure sodium variety still popular then, but can't be sure.

 

[paul1609]

We still have one in Wittersham Kent which is mounted on the electricity/ telephone post and remarkably has just been repaired after being out of use for sometime. In the USA they had them in Port Canaverel Naval Base in Florida apparently their light doesn't upset the Crocs. I can vouch for the fact that the Crocs amuse themselves by chasing sailors on the way back from the bar to their ships. Apparently there's some bite injuries but no fatalities, those are caused by being run over by drunken drivers.

 

[route101]

Wires - do you mean attached/affixed to electricity poles? Or suspended above the street on a wire from metal poles either side?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==


Ah ok, within the Netherlands I've only visited Amsterdam (2009 and 2014) and didn't see any SOX there but I guess the very big cities are more likely to replace quickly. I think it was mostly the pink high-pressure sodium variety still popular then, but can't be sure.

Usually suspended between metal poles either side.

 

[nw1]

Usually suspended between metal poles either side.

Ah ok. Haven't seen them in Ireland or Scotland but one notable example of these was The Avenue in Southampton up to around mid-1990, complete with low-pressure SOX lighting. Seems to be more common in countries such as the Netherlands (Amsterdam, at least), Germany and Austria, though normally the wires are suspended between buildings rather than metal poles.

On a vaguely related point Wales and the West Country in particular used to go in for large lights attached to wooden low-voltage electricity poles on main roads quite extensively, again mostly in the SOX era. (Smaller lights on minor roads attached to poles were more generally common, though, appearing pretty much everywhere).

 

[Ladder23]

I drove southbound on the A1 this eve, from south mimms. There is a vast stretch of sox, great to see.

 

[philthetube]

Quite a bit o n the main roads in Nottingham as well.

 

[route101]

Quite a bit o n the main roads in Nottingham as well.

Where abouts?

I did not notice any in Nottingham.

 

[mikeg]

When I was at Keele, the majority of on-campus lighting was low pressure sodium, because of the astronomical observatory. Unsure if that's still the case as haven't been back in years. There's still plenty of low pressure sodium lighting in the village of Riccall, between York and Selby, unsure why but some of it stands near what looks like high pressure sodium lighting or possibly LED stuff. Given that the lampposts are the same, possibly a replace as they fail policy?

 

[DerekC]

Interesting that (at least according to Wikipedia) SOX lamps (15-29%) have very comparable luminous efficiency to white LEDs (11-32%). So the reasons councils have replaced them are down to maintenance cost - LEDs cost less and don't have to be replaced as often. And colour spectrum - white LEDs cover most of the visible spectrum whereas SOXs are monochromatic, so things like warning signs lose the colours that make them stand out.

 

[Ediswan]

Interesting that (at least according to Wikipedia) SOX lamps (15-29%) have very comparable luminous efficiency to white LEDs (11-32%). So the reasons councils have replaced them are down to maintenance cost - LEDs cost less and don't have to be replaced as often. And colour spectrum - white LEDs cover most of the visible spectrum whereas SOXs are monochromatic, so things like warning signs lose the colours that make them stand out.

Humans seem to prefer 'white' lights. As for seeing the colours of warning signs, modern retro-reflective signs show up with dipped headlights. Very few people drive on sidelights.

 

[dgl]

One big issue with SOX lighting is it's low CRI and is quite monochromatic, that means that even high pressure white sodium lamps will make colours look "off".
For a colour to be visible there has to be that same colour in the light that is being beamed at it and just because a light source is white the makeup of that 2hite light can vary widely, you only need one wavelength of red, green and blue to make white light but you need a wide spectrum of different wavelengths of red, green and blue to properly render colour.
That's why LED's are preferred even if the efficiency is similar, they simply produce better quality/CRI light.

 

[Ediswan]

One big issue with SOX lighting is it's low CRI and is quite monochromatic, that means that even high pressure white sodium lamps will make colours look "off".
For a colour to be visible there has to be that same colour in the light that is being beamed at it and just because a light source is white the makeup of that 2hite light can vary widely, you only need one wavelength of red, green and blue to make white light but you need a wide spectrum of different wavelengths of red, green and blue to properly render colour.
That's why LED's are preferred even if the efficiency is similar, they simply produce better quality/CRI light.

CRi is only meaningful for 'white' light sources. CRI for SOX is a mathematical artefact, often stated to be negative.

 

[DelW]

One big issue with SOX lighting is it's low CRI and is quite monochromatic, that means that even high pressure white sodium lamps will make colours look "off".

CRi is only meaningful for 'white' light sources. CRI for SOX is a mathematical artefact, often stated to be negative.

Please could we have an explanation of newly introduced acronyms, per forum rules?

I'm guessing Colour Rendition Index or similar, but I could be wrong.

 

[AM9]

CRI is colour rendering index. SOx has been clarified a few times in this thread, it's referring to low pressure sodium lighting, i.e. the yellow types that were ubiquitous but are now largely being replaced with leds.

 

[DelW]

CRI is colour rendering index. SOx has been clarified a few times in this thread, it's referring to low pressure sodium lighting, i.e. the yellow types that were ubiquitous but are now largely being replaced with leds.

Thanks, I'd deduced SOx earlier but CRI was a new appearance in the discussion.

 

[najaB]

I saw something today that I've not seen before: LED streetlights the colour of low-pressure sodium lamps.

I presume it's because the area is a sea turtle nesting zone and the orange light disturbs them less.

 

[route101]

Took a bus through the Southside of Glasgow yesterday at dusk. Noticed how little SOX is left now. What is left is ramdom lanterns left in side streets. I wonder why its not all replaced.

 

[Ladder23]

Took a bus through the Southside of Glasgow yesterday at dusk. Noticed how little SOX is left now. What is left is ramdom lanterns left in side streets. I wonder why its not all replaced.

Believe the sox Phillips bulbs were no longer made after 2020/21?

So can no longer be maintained! I'd be happy to be corrected though!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2025 ==

I saw something today that I've not seen before: LED streetlights the colour of low-pressure sodium lamps.

I presume it's because the area is a sea turtle nesting zone and the orange light disturbs them less.

I call that shade salmon orange, not quite got the orange of a sox! But close from a far