Low Moor proposed railway station

[tbtc]

Its not just about electrification, I'd like to see higher frequency services on some local routes and the introduction new services, maybe a Wakefield to Manchester service either via Huddersfield, extending the Manchester stopper onto Wakefield or via the Calder Valley route through Brighouse. Although I know rolling stock issues are prominent at the minute.

Agreed, there has been some decent developments, but it doesn't mean there can't be more. West Yorkshire is a large conurbation with 3 cities and 2 large town plus countless little satellite towns, it seems the smaller projects that are needed are forgotten about at times.

Capacity will increase when longer EMUs replace Pacers/ 150s/ 185s (and those DMUs can be used to increase capacity on the Calder Valley etc).

Wakefield to Manchester won't happen once Huddersfield - Manchester is electrified - no point in electrifying the line and then introducing a new diesel service on it.

PS: Forgot to mention some other improvements in previous post (e.g. Bradford and Halifax getting a faster service to Manchester a few years ago, plus the extension of some Calder Valley services to Manchester Airport in a few years time) - apologies.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One of the reasons the Huddersfield-Wakefield and Huddersfield-Manchester were split was to free up capacity at the through platforms at Huddersfield when the TPE went from 3tph to 4. With that rising to 5 in May 2014 and further to 6 post-Ordsall Chord, I can't imagine there'd be room for another cross-Huddersfield service. I am slightly concerned that local services might be sacrificed under the TPE juggernaut, but hopefully electrification will allow capacity to increase.

Huddersfield is planned to have a new platform at some point, which might offer a little bit more flexibility on how local services are diagrammed- but given there might not be a Huddersfield-Manchester stopper soon, I can't see that a Wakefield-Manchester service would be viable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Huddersfield is planned to have a new platform at some point, which might offer a little bit more flexibility on how local services are diagrammed- but given there might not be a Huddersfield-Manchester stopper soon, I can't see that a Wakefield-Manchester service would be viable.

There once was a Manchester Victoria service to the Wakefield area, but this met its eventual demise.

 

[AndyHudds]

Having a Manchester to Wakefield service being extended on through was more about giving Huddersfield a second service per hour to Wakefield, considering the connections to London are always at Wakefield from Huddersfield as opposed to Leeds.

If the Manchester/Huddersfield service is to remain, is it going to be electric or diesel?

If all the paths are going to swallowed up by the 'TPE juggernaut', we'll never get anything other than 1 service an hour from Huddersfield on any of the local stoppers to Leeds,Wakefield and Bradford.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There once was a Manchester Victoria service to the Wakefield area, but this met its eventual demise.

Indeed- it was the one FNW invasion into what was NorthernSpirit/Arriva Trains Northern territory- and occasionally 101s popped up on it. I did make reference to this former service in my post though.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

In a similar vein, has the plan to connect two bay platforms at Leeds station, to form a new through one, disappeared into the ether?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Having a Manchester to Wakefield service being extended on through was more about giving Huddersfield a second service per hour to Wakefield, considering the connections to London are always at Wakefield from Huddersfield as opposed to Leeds.

If the Manchester/Huddersfield service is to remain, is it going to be electric or diesel?

If all the paths are going to swallowed up by the 'TPE juggernaut', we'll never get anything other than 1 service an hour from Huddersfield on any of the local stoppers to Leeds,Wakefield and Bradford.

I've quite often booked Huddersfield-London tickets and been routed to change at Leeds- even York on occasion, and not just on Sundays when there's no Wakefield train.
As far as I understand it, during the 'Northern Hub' works, the current HUD-MCV stopper will be withdrawn and replaced with 2 TPE semi-fasts per hour which will each serve 2 of the 4 local stops between Hudds and Stalybridge. Initially these will be diesel, most likely 170s due to platform constraints at Slaithwaite (though these are proposed to be extended), as the wiring won't be finished. Once the hub and the electrification is complete, a Huddersfield-Piccadilly stopper might be reintroduced (the expresses of course will be running via Victoria by then) subject to a satisfactory business case. Paths should be available for electric services due to improved acceleration of EMUs.

Huddersfield-Leeds locals used to be 2tph at least in the peaks, until the Leeds-Dewsbury-Brighouse-Hebden Bridge-(later Manchester) service was introduced. I'd hope there might be a case for a second one all day once the knitting is up!

 

[tbtc]

Having a Manchester to Wakefield service being extended on through was more about giving Huddersfield a second service per hour to Wakefield, considering the connections to London are always at Wakefield from Huddersfield as opposed to Leeds

With TPE service going up to six/ hour from Huddersfield to Leeds (on top of the stoppers from Huddersfield to Leeds) there are going to be a lot of connections at Leeds for anyone doing Huddersfield to London in the future.

There once was a Manchester Victoria service to the Wakefield area, but this met its eventual demise.

How do the people of Wakefield cope without a direct link to Manchester Airport? I'm surprised there's not been more complaints.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How do the people of Wakefield cope without a direct link to Manchester Airport? I'm surprised there's not been more complaints.

You must have missed the posting that I made on another thread which said that once Manchester Airport had its fourth platform and the RailUK forum wishes that all TPE services had been transferred elsewhere had been granted, this would leave Manchester Airport to have only double sets of Class 142 Pacers to run services,, which most certainly curb the attraction of Manchester Airport as a rail link for any hamlet, village, town or city with a railway station.

Once those aspirations had been extinguished, Manchester Airport railway station would be turned into a multi-platform Manchester Metrolink station with services to all places that TfGM see as being part of its light rail future empire.

Well, you did ask..

 

[47802]

I hadn't missed the point of light rail, but it is completely incompatible with a busy heavy rail route such as Dewsbury - Leeds, it would require its own stock and it would serve only a relatively lightly populated area. People wouldn't use it as there are better alternatives, including current bus services and interchange at the planned Low Moor park and ride.

And I'm afraid you can pontificate about the White Rose - which certainly is not a "significant bus terminal" - until you're blue in the face. I actually know the place well and I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of shoppers arrive and even with rail access, would continue to arrive by car, just as they do at Meadowhall and Trafford. That's what those places are designed for.

I would respectfully suggest that you apply some of your undoubted design talents towards schemes that are user-friendly and allow easy interchange rather than taking the view that rail can be a stand-alone solution. It hardly ever is.

I would strongly disagree with your comments about Meadowhall having lived near there for a short while and worked near there for 12 years, Yes a lot a of people come by car but a significant number come by tram, train and bus, its also become a significant interchange in its own right, I used to pick my colleagues from abroad who had come from Manchester Airport there as it was much easier than going into the centre of Sheffield. I seem to recall that not that many years ago the Leeds to Sheffield via Barnsley had 1 slow train per hour, now it has 2 fast trains and one slow train per hour plus the Huddersfield service your not telling Meadowhall has had nothing to do with that.

As for the Spen valley well as someone who lives in that area I think only a light rail or heavy rail scheme would only be of use if it ran Bradford, Spen Valley, Dewsbury, Leeds, but of course the chances of that happening are very slim indeed, overall the routing of the line is not ideal except to Bradford, but Leeds is the increasingly dominant City, and the Spen Valley towns such as Cleckheaton have good bus services to both Leeds and Bradford.

 

[Spaceflower]

So are the likes of Scarborough and Barrow going to be the losers of the electrification scheme?
What about Hull, Middlesbrough and Cleethorpes?

 

[47802]

So are the likes of Scarborough and Barrow going to be the losers of the electrification scheme?
What about Hull, Middlesbrough and Cleethorpes?

Well clearly electrification schemes need to be concentrated on the routes with the most traffic although I think the general view would be Hull Probably electrified, Middlesbrough maybe, Scarborough maybe, Cleethorpes less Maybe, and Barrow not anytime soon.

Clearly there might be some exceptions to that such as the Windermere branch, but thats because it would be relatively cheap being a short single track branch.

 

[Spaceflower]

Well clearly electrification schemes need to be concentrated on the routes with the most traffic although I think the general view would be Hull Probably, Middlesbrough maybe, Scarborough maybe, Cleethorpes less Maybe, and Barrow not anytime soon if ever.

Doesn't really answer my question.

Surely the TPE network is the sum of its parts?

 

[47802]

Doesn't really answer my question.

Surely the TPE network is the sum of its parts?

Well not if the electrification costs don't justify the revenue form the these locations, I believe the current Core North TPX scheme is based on retaining a through Diesel Service from Hull but such as Scarborough and Middlesbrough, would be replaced by a new half hourly electric service from Newcastle and a semi fast electric service from Selby. Its possible that the Copy Pit Blackpool service might get extended to Scarborough and Middlesbrough instead.

Plus Network rail cannot electrify everywhere in a matter of a few years, they may be hard pressed to do everything planned for CP5 as it is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We appear to have really gone off-thread from the original thread matter of a proposed railway station at Low Moor.

 

[47802]

Well coming back to Low Moor I am not sure how well used it would be, I wouldn't say Low Moor has a massive population density in the immediate vicinity, it has a frequent bus service to Bradford. Technically it would be the nearest station to where I live about 2.5 miles away but I'm not sure I would use especially it as there is no direct bus there from where I live, but there is to Dewsbury where I could catch a faster and more frequent service to Manchester and for other destinations I would catch the bus to Leeds or Bradford.

 

[eastdyke]

What more is there to say other than it has taken far too long to get the project towards completion and so that the residents of Low Moor can regain direct access to rail travel?

It was pretty much a foregone deal that this would happen eventually so why all the hangups with marginally out of 'regulation' details that could/should have been sorted in just a few hours?

 

[Starmill]

...the connections to London are always at Wakefield from Huddersfield as opposed to Leeds.

I think we had a rather opinionated thread on this recently... and erm, nope!

 

[AndyHudds]

I think we had a rather opinionated thread on this recently... and erm, nope!

What do you mean? Almost everytime you buy a ticket from Huddersfield to London it will send you via Wakefield and not Leeds. They have a small timetable you can pick up at Huddersfield with connections to London and almost everytime the connection is via Wakefield and not Leeds, unless its Sunday of course, when there is no Wakefield service from Huddersfield and a few on a night.

So I'm not sure what you really mean.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

They have a small timetable you can pick up at Huddersfield with connections to London and almost everytime the connection is via Wakefield and not Leeds, unless its Sunday of course, when there is no Wakefield service from Huddersfield and a few on a night.

The only services that run on the Thornhills Junction to Horbury section of the Huddersfield Line is the four GC services on a Sunday.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

Phew....well that's something at least. I've never understood why there has never been any campaign, proposal or feasibility study on the re-opening of the Spen line. Most of the track bed is intact, the population is there and it could give us a second service into Bradford from Huddersfield that Metro desire in their Railplan, obviously they'd have to build a curve into the Wakefield line at Ravensthorpe for it to serve Huddersfield but there is plenty of land round there for that, plus if the Horbury Curve was reinstated Bradford could have services onto Barnsley and Sheffield plus the East Midlands.

There was a campaign group called the Missing Link, which was very active in ensuring the land was not sold off piecemeal. They still maintain a webpage.

 

[Starmill]

What do you mean? Almost everytime you buy a ticket from Huddersfield to London it will send you via Wakefield and not Leeds. They have a small timetable you can pick up at Huddersfield with connections to London and almost everytime the connection is via Wakefield and not Leeds, unless its Sunday of course, when there is no Wakefield service from Huddersfield and a few on a night.

So I'm not sure what you really mean.

Just that there is only 1 train per hour on the Huddersfield - Wakefield route. There are 2 via Leeds and 3 via Manchester, so it's not necessarily the quickest way.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The conclusion last time was that it depends what time you go to the station.

 

[quantinghome]

Well coming back to Low Moor I am not sure how well used it would be, I wouldn't say Low Moor has a massive population density in the immediate vicinity, it has a frequent bus service to Bradford. Technically it would be the nearest station to where I live about 2.5 miles away but I'm not sure I would use especially it as there is no direct bus there from where I live, but there is to Dewsbury where I could catch a faster and more frequent service to Manchester and for other destinations I would catch the bus to Leeds or Bradford.

With the M606 junction next to it, it's likely to have significant use as a parkway station for commuters going to Bradford or Leeds.

 

[Deerfold]

The conclusion last time was that it depends what time you go to the station.

Putting the route Huddersfield - London into the East Coast website, in a typical hour there are 4 times given - 1 via Leeds, 1 via Wakefield and 2 via Manchester.

Via Wakefield is the quickest route but not worth waiting long for.

Advance fares are rarely routed via Leeds during Mon-Sat daytime.

 

[Bantamzen]

With the M606 junction next to it, it's likely to have significant use as a parkway station for commuters going to Bradford or Leeds.

The problem with this is that the nearest junction is the Euroway on the M606, but you can't actually directly reach the station site from it due to the industrial units there. You can approach the station from the M62/M606 junction along Cleckheaton Road, but you are then faced with a car park only current planned for about 113(?) spaces. So it's not really up to a parkway as yet. It's perhaps something that WY Metro / Bradford Council / NR might want to think more about, because in theory it's a good idea, taking the strain off the top of the M606 & the southern approaches into Bradford.

 

[HowardGWR]

The problem with this is that the nearest junction is the Euroway on the M606, but you can't actually directly reach the station site from it due to the industrial units there. You can approach the station from the M62/M606 junction along Cleckheaton Road, but you are then faced with a car park only current planned for about 113(?) spaces. So it's not really up to a parkway as yet. It's perhaps something that WY Metro / Bradford Council / NR might want to think more about, because in theory it's a good idea, taking the strain off the top of the M606 & the southern approaches into Bradford.

The other problem with Bradford (see other thread) is surely that you don't end up in Bradford centre whereas you do in Leeds.

 

[47802]

The problem with this is that the nearest junction is the Euroway on the M606, but you can't actually directly reach the station site from it due to the industrial units there. You can approach the station from the M62/M606 junction along Cleckheaton Road, but you are then faced with a car park only current planned for about 113(?) spaces. So it's not really up to a parkway as yet. It's perhaps something that WY Metro / Bradford Council / NR might want to think more about, because in theory it's a good idea, taking the strain off the top of the M606 & the southern approaches into Bradford.

Or you could just go to Cleckheaton and catch the frequent bus service to Leeds which is likely to be as quick if not quicker than the train and even at peak times uses one of the lesser congested routes into Leeds.

 

[quantinghome]

The other problem with Bradford (see other thread) is surely that you don't end up in Bradford centre whereas you do in Leeds.

Bradford has a centre?!!!

Joking aside I think both stations serve their respective city centres equally well. neither are slap bang in the middle of town. They are both on the edge of the CBD.

 

[AndyHudds]

Or you could just go to Cleckheaton and catch the frequent bus service to Leeds which is likely to be as quick if not quicker than the train and even at peak times uses one of the lesser congested routes into Leeds.

51 minutes the bus takes, a train from Cleckheaton via Bradford wouldn't take that long surely?