-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Low bridges versus Double Deckers
- Thread starter 2192
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
GusB
Established Member
Conversion to single-deck has been an option in the past. Have a look at @scosutsut's avatar for an example. I suppose the fate of the bus depends on the severity of the damage, how much it will cost to rectify and whether or not the company has a requirement for an open-topper!
Another vote for 'it depends'
If the bus was close to end of life, then it might be sent for scrap. Some get converted to open top, a very few have been converted to single deck, some are repaired. There must be some that have been completely re-bodied, but I'd say that was a rarity.
It can depend how much of the rest of the framework has been bent or whether it's a relatively clean break.
One operator I used to know had decided to convert an ageing double decker to open top for special events. There was then something of an argument going on as the original estimate for how much it would cost to do this (in house) was rather optimistic. At the point where the work was almost finished and the argument was going on, another bus in the fleet got an 'instant open top conversion' courtesy of a low bridge...
If the bus was close to end of life, then it might be sent for scrap. Some get converted to open top, a very few have been converted to single deck, some are repaired. There must be some that have been completely re-bodied, but I'd say that was a rarity.
It can depend how much of the rest of the framework has been bent or whether it's a relatively clean break.
One operator I used to know had decided to convert an ageing double decker to open top for special events. There was then something of an argument going on as the original estimate for how much it would cost to do this (in house) was rather optimistic. At the point where the work was almost finished and the argument was going on, another bus in the fleet got an 'instant open top conversion' courtesy of a low bridge...
philthetube
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 4,180
If the damage is not below window height then converting to open top is easy, more of a job if the panels below the windows are damaged.
The other day I watched Police Interceptors on telly and the episode was about a First bus ripping off its roof in Bradford, I googled the fleet number: 37058 - YJ06 XMK and apparently its still in service with First Kernow suprise suprise - as an open top decker! They had only replaced surviving upper windows with round gasket ones which looks a bit silly, as lower deck has bonded ones 
I suppose it depends on the age & condition of the bus. Some recent examples of buses hitting a low bridge in South Yorkshire show this. FSY 35102 hit a bridge at Crystal Peaks shopping centre, it was sent back to WrightBus who fitted a replacement roof & it is like new. Stagecoach Yorkshire Scania E400 15665 hit a low bridge at Royston near Barnsley it is now an open topper around Devon. Scania Omnidekka 15414 the last of the type & in heritage livery hit the same bridge at Royston & was sent for scrap.
GusB
Established Member
This is probably the most important factor. Old-school double deckers had a chassis that was largely self-supporting, but the trend towards integral construction means that the strength and rigidity of the whole vehicle relies on the body as well as the underframe. What might appear to be cosmetic damage may actually go a lot deeper if the structure gets a hard enough whack.
Last edited:
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Practically all modern double deck buses are designed so that in a bridge strike the roof comes off cleanly and doesn't crumple decreasing the risk of injuries to passengers. Conversion to single deck was common in the past but i can't think of any instances where that happened in recent decades, most low bridge victims either get converted to open toppers or fully repaired provided they're not scrapped.
If i'm not mistaken the replacement roof came from an ex-Arriva London Gemini, the main reason being because Wright no longer supply fully roofs for the Gemini/Gemini 2 and the donor vehicle was going for scrap at the time. It does look a bit odd but given the context of the circumstances it makes sense.The other day I watched Police Interceptors on telly and the episode was about a First bus ripping off its roof in Bradford, I googled the fleet number: 37058 - YJ06 XMK and apparently its still in service with First Kernow suprise suprise - as an open top decker! They had only replaced surviving upper windows with round gasket ones which looks a bit silly, as lower deck has bonded ones
The other day I watched Police Interceptors on telly and the episode was about a First bus ripping off its roof in Bradford, I googled the fleet number: 37058 - YJ06 XMK and apparently its still in service with First Kernow suprise suprise - as an open top decker! They had only replaced surviving upper windows with round gasket ones which looks a bit silly, as lower deck has bonded ones
Is that this one?
YJ06XMK First Bradford Volvo B7TL 37058
First Bradford 37058 pictured in heavy Hall Ings traffic on it's way through the city centre on route to Ravenscliffe and Greengates. This Wright Eclipse Gemini bodied Volvo B7TL is operating Green Line route 645 from Buttershaw.
www.flickr.com
I was interested so I looked it up but I can’t see a difference between the top and bottom deck windows on it? I’m definitely not an expert on these things though.
Gloster
Veteran Member
Is that this one?
YJ06XMK First Bradford Volvo B7TL 37058
First Bradford 37058 pictured in heavy Hall Ings traffic on it's way through the city centre on route to Ravenscliffe and Greengates. This Wright Eclipse Gemini bodied Volvo B7TL is operating Green Line route 645 from Buttershaw.
I was interested so I looked it up but I can’t see a difference between the top and bottom deck windows on it? I’m definitely not an expert on these things though.
I think that that is a ‘before’ photo. There are ‘after’ photos on Flickr: just type the registration number into Flickr‘s Search box. Though it doesn’t look much different to me, either.
Great to know background of this, thanks
Is that this one?
YJ06XMK First Bradford Volvo B7TL 37058
First Bradford 37058 pictured in heavy Hall Ings traffic on it's way through the city centre on route to Ravenscliffe and Greengates. This Wright Eclipse Gemini bodied Volvo B7TL is operating Green Line route 645 from Buttershaw.
I was interested so I looked it up but I can’t see a difference between the top and bottom deck windows on it? I’m definitely not an expert on these things though.
First South West 37058 - YJ06XMK
Snapped it! One of two 'Geminis' to operate the Lands End Coaster - this Volvo B7TL and a B9TL as well - 37058 arrives in to Penzance bus station after escaping my camera for many years. I was very happy getting this one! I'd like to do something more exciting than Truro and Penzance all the...
www.flickr.com
That's an old photo of it being one piece, here's one with open top conversion. The easiest way to spot bonded vs gasket windows is the spaces between them, in bonded they're nonexistent, in gasket if not painted black they have bodywork colour between them.
90sWereBetter
Member
There was a famous staged collision in Swindon around 1996ish, involving a superannuated Bristol VR vs a 10ft high bridge. Suffice to say, the bridge won in a landslide.
randyrippley
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Feb 2016
- Messages
- 5,382
Around 25 years ago Stagecoach lost the roofs off two Alexander Olympians in Lancaster, Same bridge, a year apart.
A third (the special liveried Lancaster Millennium bus, 2199) lost its rear roof when it was reversed into the bus station canopy. On its first day out after the paint job.....
All were re-roofed, AFAIK by East Lancs, not Alexander
A third (the special liveried Lancaster Millennium bus, 2199) lost its rear roof when it was reversed into the bus station canopy. On its first day out after the paint job.....
All were re-roofed, AFAIK by East Lancs, not Alexander
PG
Established Member
Interesting. What was the reasoning behind the staging, it's not as if bus drivers wouldn't be aware of the consequences of challenging a low bridge!There was a famous staged collision in Swindon around 1996ish, involving a superannuated Bristol VR vs a 10ft high bridge. Suffice to say, the bridge won in a landslide.
How much time was there between the two incidents?
In my experience word quickly gets round and drivers become more vigilant of a bridge once it has deroofed a bus.
I'm curious about this and if there is any published information about it as unlike other safety features e.g. pedestrian friendly designs, I wouldn't expect builders to factor in bridge strikes when designing deckers?
Great to know background of this, thanks
First South West 37058 - YJ06XMK
Snapped it! One of two 'Geminis' to operate the Lands End Coaster - this Volvo B7TL and a B9TL as well - 37058 arrives in to Penzance bus station after escaping my camera for many years. I was very happy getting this one! I'd like to do something more exciting than Truro and Penzance all the...
That's an old photo of it being one piece, here's one with open top conversion. The easiest way to spot bonded vs gasket windows is the spaces between them, in bonded they're nonexistent, in gasket if not painted black they have bodywork colour between them.
Ah gottit. Thank you!
90sWereBetter
Member
I believe it was organised by Railtrack to raise awareness. Oddly enough it was filmed on a Tuesday, and not during a weekend when the line might have been under possession like I first thought! There's plenty of videos on YouTube of the collision, plus this summary from the Swindon Advertiser back in 2007.
The day a bus crashed into UK's most bashed bridge
IT'S been the scene of untold misery over the years, with lorries, rubbish trucks and many other vehicles coming a cropper. Whitehouse Bridge…www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk
IT DOES seem that only a few weeks go by before we hear about yet another vehicle hitting Britain's most-bashed bridge.
Last month Whitehouse Bridge in Swindon managed to escape any major incidents. But over its lifetime the structure has been struck at least once a month by high vehicles who fail to spot the "Low Bridge" signs. However, despite all these accidents, the bridge always appears to be indestructible. It's the vehicles that suffer. Over the years it has been bashed by everything from large articulated lorries, double-decker buses and small high-sided vans.
During the 1990s, the bridge hits were becoming increasingly common - disrupting journeys not only for Swindon drivers but commuters on the train too. So in 1996, it was decided that a bus would be deliberately bashed into the bridge to show just how dangerous it can be. October 15 was the big day, and big crowds gathered in Station Road and Whitehouse Road to watch chaos ensue. Numerous photographers and TV cameramen were also there to capture the moment.
Among those with video cameras were a team from the Swindon-based AVP Group, which had a series of cameras in place. Now it has made the video of the demonstration available to Adver readers, who can watch the spectacular stunt on our website. Bob Myers, of AVP, was there on the day. Five cameras were used behind the bus, and under and above the bridge.
"We were contracted by Railtrack at the time to do the work and we had about a week's notice," Bob said.
"We had one chance to get it right so that's why we set up so many cameras.
"I remember one of our cameramen was set up under the bridge and he was shooting on telephoto and was a safe distance from the bus, but he said to me afterwards that the whole experience scared the pants off him as the bus got bigger in the viewfinder.
"I have no doubt readers will enjoy the video. The stunt and the sound effects were spectacular to say the least. It was quite an experience to see it."
The bus was driven by stuntman John Carr, who was hired by the-then rail infrastructure firm Railtrack to drive into the 10ft high bridge. He was given just a 100 yard run-up to get the bus to speed before the top the vehicle walloped the bridge. As it did so the top deck of the bus peeled off like a tin of sardines. By the time the bus had come to a halt, it had been pinned halfway under the structure. A few moments later John - who was insured for £2m - emerged from the bus unscathed to a round of applause. The bridge was completely undamaged by the demonstration, although there was one problem - the crash caused the height sign on the bridge to crumple and fall off, so there was no sign to warn drivers of tall vehicles. It was replaced a few days later, however.
GusB
Established Member
Thanks to the magic of t'internet, here's one that was uploaded earlier:
(Link to YouTube clip of the staged bridge strike in Swindon)
(Link to YouTube clip of the staged bridge strike in Swindon)
Gloster
Veteran Member
So that is another reason to sit right at the back of the top deck…in addition to the usual one.
There was one that lost its roof trying to enter Kelso bus station. For a spell in the early noughties, service 62 between Edinburgh, Peebles, Galashiels and Melrose was extended to Kelso (one of First's crazy ideas). Any double-deckers allocated to the 62 had to pick up and set down outside the bus station there, as it could only accommodate single-deckers.
Cue the day when Volvo Citybus/East Lancs 1198 (E40OAH), new to Great Yarmouth Transport, was allocated to one of the 62 boards. Its driver went to turn in to Kelso bus station and realised that it wouldn't fit. He braked sharply but, in doing so, sent 1198 on to its nose with the upper deck front hitting the wall above the bus station entrance before being knocked backwards, taking a chunk out of the wall at the same time.
Needless to say, 1198 never ran again after that and it was swiftly despatched to Dunsmore's for scrapping shortly afterwards.
Cue the day when Volvo Citybus/East Lancs 1198 (E40OAH), new to Great Yarmouth Transport, was allocated to one of the 62 boards. Its driver went to turn in to Kelso bus station and realised that it wouldn't fit. He braked sharply but, in doing so, sent 1198 on to its nose with the upper deck front hitting the wall above the bus station entrance before being knocked backwards, taking a chunk out of the wall at the same time.
Needless to say, 1198 never ran again after that and it was swiftly despatched to Dunsmore's for scrapping shortly afterwards.
Stagecoach have an Enviro 400 in Cumbria that looks like its been the victim of deroofiing at some point and converted to open top, if you look around the rebuilt front part of the roof, you can see it was done in house and on a budget!
www.flickr.com
Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire: 19161 / VLT217
Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire - The Borrowdale Bus liveried - Dennis Trident 2 / Alexander Enviro 400 - VLT 217 seen at Keswick Bus Station operating service 78 to Seatoller on May 7th 2022
www.flickr.com
I remember it was staged shortly after the West Street accident in Glasgow in September 1994, which claimed five lives.
The West Street bridge was, at the time, one of the most struck low bridges in the country and it was a tragic turn of events which led to the accident involving Clydeside Fleetline 870. The road junction at the bridge was closed off a few years later, in March 1998.
Last edited:
M803UYA
Member
It isn't just the driver who'll be up before the traffic commissioner on a driver conduct hearing. The operator can no longer use the defence of 'it's the driver's responsibility not ours' after a bridge strike. It's correct that there are height signs in the cab of double decker buses warning drivers of the height.
There are devices which can be fitted to double deckers to warn of low bridges - though that costs money and operators like to avoid spending money. I'd wager the cost of kitting out a fleet is lower than the cost of hitting one low bridge, plus the delay minutes payable to Network Rail for the time the railway line is out of action.
As a previous poster has pointed out, since the late 1990s double deck bus construction has been such that if a bridge is struck, the top deck comes off cleanly and then the it's the cost of replacing the structure against the value of the bus concerned. I recall a part open topper in South Wales (operated by First Cymru, fairly recently) where the vehicle struck an overhead object and the top deck responded as per it was built. But the vehicle had been modified to partial open top and that resulted in further damage to the upper deck.
Speaking of devices fitting to vehicles warning drivers of low-bridges in the area I know that the Ticketers have an option fitted that can warn drivers of any low-bridges/restrictions in the area that they are driving and will start beeping if they are in the vicinity of one.
- Status