Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[Avenger20]

Equally, the 100 is busy enough as it is with airport travellers. They pay a premium for the express service so it shouldn't be diverting into local facilities IMO.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Equally, the 100 is busy enough as it is with airport travellers. They pay a premium for the express service so it shouldn't be diverting into local facilities IMO.

By that logic, folk shouldn't be paying for premium for the Tram Airport Fare as it also diverts into local facilities, or the former Skylink brand (which may of been the reason the Airport premium was scrapped on those services)

I always found it odd that the Trams charge more out to Edinburgh Airport compared to Airlink, personally I think the fares should be similar and better integrated, the only way to travel on both services is with a ridacard or network dayticket.

And before anyone points out, I am aware the Airport play a big part in the Premium fare, (but then how can Lothian get away with city fares with the 17 and 18)

 

[Bus9120UK]

The point on capacity on the 100 is definitely valid, in fact you can use Airlink tickets on the tram just now as it is getting overwhelmed.
I see absolutely no logic in stopping at those locations in one direction only, how many people are realistically doing a one way trip?
What demand are you targetting from Gogarburn, could stopping there take away passengers from Lothian Country services?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The point on capacity on the 100 is definitely valid, in fact you can use Airlink tickets on the tram just now as it is getting overwhelmed.

Airlink are at least still running into the centre, I think the diversion has caused the reliability to stop, hence the acception.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

With the new service change expected on the 13th, and we have a few conformations.

X17 - Extending to Whitburn Heartlands
X19 - Extending to Livingston via Broxburn and Fast Link
72 - Curtailed to Broxburn (replaced by X19 in winchburgh)

32 - Extending from Cramond to West Granton.

37A - New Service Penicuik to Royal Infirmary
39A - New service Rosewell to Royal Infirmary

Anyone got any other guesses or ideas on what we should expect?

 

[SoloSR334022]

Is it definitely confirmed that the X19 and 72 will serve Pumpherston/Fastlink and not the other way around? It seems quite silly to have it that way but already having the X19 to Livingston seemed ludicrous to me so I wouldn't be surprised and with the talk from the locals in Dechmont about getting a service through the village to Livingston I'm not sure if I'm prepared for the next service change (lol).

Also on the point of the letter from the Livingston MP, it would also be interested to see if the 72 gets another frequency increase...

On another note, it would be interesting to see if the Bathgate-Fauldhouse link ever returns and if the X18 runs down Rigghouse Road in Whitburn on it's way to Heartlands. I would also like to see the X19 retain the stop at the School Campus in Winchburgh (it appears that will take shape in the 72's last route to Kirkliston).

 

[jb66]

Spoiled for choice in uphall!

31, 902, E19, 72 and X19 all going to livingston

 

[overthewater]

Is it definitely confirmed that the X19 and 72 will serve Pumpherston/Fastlink and not the other way around?

It has to be that way to allow faster journey times to winchburgh.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Is it definitely confirmed that the X19 and 72 will serve Pumpherston/Fastlink and not the other way around? It seems quite silly to have it that way but already having the X19 to Livingston seemed ludicrous to me so I wouldn't be surprised and with the talk from the locals in Dechmont about getting a service through the village to Livingston I'm not sure if I'm prepared for the next service change (lol).

Also on the point of the letter from the Livingston MP, it would also be interested to see if the 72 gets another frequency increase...

On another note, it would be interesting to see if the Bathgate-Fauldhouse link ever returns and if the X18 runs down Rigghouse Road in Whitburn on it's way to Heartlands. I would also like to see the X19 retain the stop at the School Campus in Winchburgh (it appears that will take shape in the 72's last route to Kirkliston).

My read is that it would be the other way around, X19 using Fastlink after Deer Park and 72 remaining as is. I think the 72 is well established enough that the route after Broxburn should be maintained as is especially given what we've heard about how well it is used. It's certainly an odd route for the X19 but it's more a case of linking different stretches together to try grow the service overall given the new direct through links made available. These X19 changes will bring back the fast bus into Livingston from Winchburgh that the 72 originally offered and also reinstate the links to Kirkliston that the 72 used to provide before it was shortened.

I assume the 72 will either preserve it's 40 minute frequency or be increased to every 30 minutes, the X19 I assume will remain hourly. Remember that part of that stretch of route is funded by a Winchburgh housing development company plus the existing stretch from Edinburgh to Winchburgh certainly does not justify the frequency being any higher.

With the new service change expected on the 13th, and we have a few conformations.

X17 - Extending to Whitburn Heartlands
X19 - Extending to Livingston via Broxburn and Fast Link
72 - Curtailed to Broxburn (replaced by X19 in winchburgh)

32 - Extending from Cramond to West Granton.

37A - New Service Penicuik to Royal Infirmary
39A - New service Rosewell to Royal Infirmary

Anyone got any other guesses or ideas on what we should expect?

You have missed the new 28 service, Bellvue to Gilmerton Station. I don't know what route it'll use but Kirk Brae, Lasswade Road onto Gilmerton Station Road (which the X40 uses) is my bet.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

My read is that it would be the other way around, X19 using Fastlink after Deer Park and 72 remaining as is. I think the 72 is well established enough that the route after Broxburn should be maintained as is especially given what we've heard about how well it is used.
I assume the 72 will either preserve it's 40 minute frequency or be increased to every 30 minutes, the X19 I assume will remain hourly. Remember that part of that stretch of route is funded by the Winchburgh housing development company.

You have missed the new 28 service, Bellvue to Gilmerton Station. I don't know which route it'll use but Lasswade road is my bet.

I think the 72 will stay the way it is, only the X19 will be running via Fast Link and Dechmont, it makes more sense that way, im hoping the timings will be good for connections with the X19/72 in Broxburn!

Oh yeah so I did, hopefully the 28's final route will be an interesting one!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2026 ==

You have missed the new 28 service, Bellvue to Gilmerton Station. I don't know what route it'll use but Kirk Brae, Lasswade Road onto Gilmerton Station Road (which the X40 uses) is my bet.

I only just realised thats what you meant, silly me!

I take back what I said originally on this route then, I think it's great Gilmerton Station gets another service outside the X40, although I'm curious, if it comes from Lasswade Road direction, I'm guessing it will turn at the roundabout? or use the Gilmerton Terminus that is already in place?, unless there's a plan to have the buses run into the estate.

Also, was there talks on having buses run down Lang Loan at one point or did I make that up?

 

[Busman757]

It has to be that way to allow

Is it definitely confirmed that the X19 and 72 will serve Pumpherston/Fastlink and not the other way around? It seems quite silly to have it that way but already having the X19 to Livingston seemed ludicrous to me so I wouldn't be surprised and with the talk from the locals in Dechmont about getting a service through the village to Livingston I'm not sure if I'm prepared for the next service change (lol).

Also on the point of the letter from the Livingston MP, it would also be interested to see if the 72 gets another frequency increase...

On another note, it would be interesting to see if the Bathgate-Fauldhouse link ever returns and if the X18 runs down Rigghouse Road in Whitburn on it's way to Heartlands. I would also like to see the X19 retain the stop at the School Campus in Winchburgh (it appears that will take shape in the 72's last route to Kirkliston).

Goes straight from the current terminus at Polkemmet Road to Heartlands. A few drivers take the bus down there anyway. Or I certainly used to.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Goes straight from the current terminus at Polkemmet Road to Heartlands. A few drivers take the bus down there anyway. Or I certainly used to.

Is that not the Terminus for when Whitburn closes for its gala?

 

[paravostok]

Goes straight from the current terminus at Polkemmet Road to Heartlands. A few drivers take the bus down there anyway. Or I certainly used to.

That's why it always annoyed me it never stopped there, whenever trying to get the 902 I had to get off, watch the bus drive to where I wanted to go, and then sit there whilst I walked for 10 or so minutes.

 

[Bus9120UK]

In the city it's hard to read where to go next because very little changed this time around, just like February. I wonder if Lothian are quite happy/comfortable with the network as it is and therefore want to explore what new options they could add on. Frequency increases are the easiest proposal for me to make and there are various routes that could do with some but I am sure those will inevitably come with time where justified. Services 3 and 14 for example.

i would like to see the restoration of a form of the north end of the former 42. Perhaps even linking to the new 28 in some way (maybe along the 36 route). At the time it was withdrawn it was to allow the resource to be moved elsewhere, I wonder if now we are at a point where a reinstatement could be explored. Of course I don't have the numbers on how well it performed but it was able to run for a significant period of time pre-covid so it had to work somehow?

I would also like the 2 to return to the Gyle. Although it was clearly justified before and performed well, and the cut to Hermiston was only to allow better running times across the remaining route, there now is added reason of the 22 alteration reducing provision and leaving certain areas uncovered which the 2 could now replace. Remember that pre-covid, the tram was obviously there since 2014 but the 2 was able to operate to the Gyle in the region at every 15 minutes alongside the 22 which was better than every 10 minutes. What we have now is much much poorer.

The 47/B is a route I would like to see extended to East Craigs to provide more options for getting into Edinburgh and also to provide more local links within the city, similar to the links created by the 32 extension.

Also, in East Lothian I really now start to question whether Musselburgh depot is being optimised well with the X4, 140/1 operating from there. Drivers being used on those while real East Lothian services are being cut is not great and I only fear it'll get worst, not better. When the 139 was removed that already was a resource saving at Musselburgh, and now we've got even more.
Perhaps it's too much a fantasy but I would like to see the 140/1 move to Marine as the 40/1 to create room for change in East Lothian. We've already got changeovers at Dalkeith and Fort Kinnaird so Musselburgh surely is fine? This is all nothing compared to Lothian Country dead mileage.

West Lothian growth is good but its still slow and the network is still a skeleton compared to what West Lothian once had. At this rate I don't think we'll be getting much better. I am not familiar enough with the region to provide exact proposals but I just want to see more..

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Ideally in the next 2/3 years the resources will be there to facilitate a frequency increase on the 3 & 14.

In terms of a northern extension for the new 28 in the future.. Ocean Terminal via Canonmills, Goldenacre, Ferry Rd & Junction St could be an option? South Edinburgh has no direct buses to the shopping centre until South Bridge since the 11 got sent to the Western Harbour, and neither does Goldenacre.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

no direct buses to the shopping centre

“Shopping centre” is generous

 

[TheEastCoaster]

“Shopping centre” is generous

To be fair, it's a centre, and it has shops in it, I think it qualifies! most folk would say the same for something like Westside Plaza.

In terms of a northern extension for the new 28 in the future.. Ocean Terminal via Canonmills, Goldenacre, Ferry Rd & Junction St could be an option? South Edinburgh has no direct buses to the shopping centre until South Bridge since the 11 got sent to the Western Harbour, and neither does Goldenacre.

To be honest, this could work potentially, because unless you swap over to a 35 on South Bridge, then there's no easy way to get down to ocean terminal, if this 28 works out well then it could have room to potentially grow.

 

[Avenger20]

Is there really the demand to go from South Edinburgh to OT though? What's there that can't be gotten elsewhere? There is nothing unique about OT at the moment that would justify a major effort to increase services there especially considering it's pretty well served as it is. It's a convenient terminal point for multiple services that already serve the Leith area but it isn't as much of a destination nowadays.

There are repeated calls to introduce a service from Musselburgh to Ocean Terminal via Seafield and I'm not sure why - again it doesn't appear that there is much in the way of demand to sustain an ongoing service. I'd be interested if the 17 was extended for a trial period, especially if it could achieve a competitive journey time from Musselburgh to the Airport.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Is there really the demand to go from South Edinburgh to OT though? What's there that can't be gotten elsewhere? There is nothing unique about OT at the moment that would justify a major effort to increase services there especially considering it's pretty well served as it is. It's a convenient terminal point for multiple services that already serve the Leith area but it isn't as much of a destination nowadays.

This is one of the reasons in my proposal I sent it via Goldenacre, which doesn't have an OT service either.

 

[zjsptgzxyspks]

I'd probably send the 28 down to Western General via Inverleith Pl. the only alternative on the nearby corridor is the 36 and seems to have quite some capacity issue.

 

[ScotRail158725]

In the city it's hard to read where to go next because very little changed this time around, just like February. I wonder if Lothian are quite happy/comfortable with the network as it is and therefore want to explore what new options they could add on. Frequency increases are the easiest proposal for me to make and there are various routes that could do with some but I am sure those will inevitably come with time where justified. Services 3 and 14 for example.

Agreed, frequency increses on core routes would be a great start

i would like to see the restoration of a form of the north end of the former 42. Perhaps even linking to the new 28 in some way

I feel the way the 28 has been introduced allows scope for extension either end, its a route basically setup to develop and

West Lothian growth is good but its still slow and the network is still a skeleton compared to what West Lothian once had. At this rate I don't think we'll be getting much better. I am not familiar enough with the region to provide exact proposals but I just want to see more..

It definitely needs a consistent evening service and half hourly down the West Calder/Whitburn corridor

In terms of a northern extension for the new 28 in the future.. Ocean Terminal via Canonmills, Goldenacre, Ferry Rd & Junction St could be an option? South Edinburgh has no direct buses to the shopping centre until South Bridge since the 11 got sent to the Western Harbour, and neither does Goldenacre.

Ocean Terminal is a desert now, sending anything else there these days is pointless

 

[Jonathan Lynch]

send the 28 out to findlay gardens on the current 13 route and let mcgills combine the 13 and 60 sending the 13 round Charlotte sq and up lothian road then continuing on to Holyrood. would give a bit potential to extend the 28 from findlay gardens. All hypothetical as would require them to work together and the council to change the brief for the 13 and the 60.

 

[CSB0241]

send the 28 out to findlay gardens on the current 13 route and let mcgills combine the 13 and 60 sending the 13 round Charlotte sq and up lothian road then continuing on to Holyrood. would give a bit potential to extend the 28 from findlay gardens. All hypothetical as would require them to work together and the council to change the brief for the 13 and the 60.

The main problem is that I severely doubt there’d be demand for a bus along the eastern section of the 13 every 30 minutes - it barely carries more than 5 passengers a bus at an hourly frequency. I do think that the idea of merging the 13 & 60 together is a good idea, though I don’t think having the 28 replace the eastern section out to Lochend would be the smartest use of resources.

 

[danielhogg2005]

The main problem is that I severely doubt there’d be demand for a bus along the eastern section of the 13 every 30 minutes - it barely carries more than 5 passengers a bus at an hourly frequency. I do think that the idea of merging the 13 & 60 together is a good idea, though I don’t think having the 28 replace the eastern section out to Lochend would be the smartest use of resources.

If that is the case then could it work to have the other bus per hour extend to Craigleith Retail Park via Stockbridge then the route of the 42 and alternate between the two?

I remember seeing somewhere a while ago that the council was looking at bringing back the north section of the 42.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

If that is the case then could it work to have the other bus per hour extend to Craigleith Retail Park via Stockbridge then the route of the 42 and alternate between the two?

I remember seeing somewhere a while ago that the council was looking at bringing back the north section of the 42.

Honestly I'm tied on this, I could argue that Ocean Terminal could do with the south link, despite it being a pretty hot take on here.

But maybe a service to Craigleith could work, they could literally have it mimic the 42 all the way from Causewayside.

I'm still holding out that Lothian will gain the 13 back from a council tender.

 

[danielhogg2005]

I'm still holding out that Lothian will gain the 13 back from a council tender.

I am too, not because I think Midland Bluebird is a terrible operator, but it makes sense to me for it to be part of the Lothian network (and the only time I used the 13 I watched a couple of tourists try to use a Lothian day ticket on it, to be told that they can't use it and had to buy new tickets).