Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[alexf380]

While the discussion in the main thread is going on about potential East Coast Buses alterations, I thought I'd throw my ideas into the ring.

Service X4
Tranent to Haymarket, every hour. Re-routed to serve Edinburgh Road in Tranent, running straight through Dolphingstone to Wallyford. Tranent terminus is either Windygoul or Muirpark at Aldi depending on which 113 option is taken below.

Service X6
Haddington to Haymarket, every hour. Re-routed to serve Presonpans Hawthorn Road, as the X4 does currently. The hourly frequency makes this possible as there is plenty of layover time at Haymarket to use.

Service X7
Reverts to half hourly frequency, and extended to Yosemite Park in Dunbar. The X6 provides the third bus per hour between Haddington and Edinburgh.

Service 113
Extended to Western General with either more running time in the peaks, meaning more layovers for better reliability, and an afternoon peak extra journey utilising one of the school buses. Alternatively re-routed to serve Windygoul and Charles River in Tranent, adding a 7th bus to the PVR for more running time.

Service 106
Haddington to Fort Kinnaird only. In an ideal world this would be re-routed to serve Newcraighall again using the single decks freed up from the X7 reduction.

Service 120
Curtailed to Spott Road Asda in Dunbar to improve reliability. Currently there is very little recovery time on the Eve tender services.

Queen Margaret Uni;
If taking the 106 out of QMU is a deal breaker then either extending the 140 up to Queen Margaret from Tesco, or diverting the 46 & 48 to serve the campus are alternatives.

Crucially these ideas would reduce the PVR compared to now by at least 3 buses.

 

[overthewater]

X7 wont get cut unless it become a decker route, which is can't. When it was every 30mins you had standing loads going up and down the A1.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

X7 wont get cut unless it become a decker route, which is can't. When it was every 30mins you had standing loads going up and down the A1.

I’m using the X7 a lot at the moment and I can honestly say it doesn’t need to be every 20 minutes whatsoever. The solution would be using the school buses to form additional peak runs to and from Haddington. The morning runs could simply come off the scrapped X6 and go on the 106 after.

 

[Willie622]

Or extend east coast buses to Berwick upon Tweed instead

 

[JKP]

Or extend east coast buses to Berwick upon Tweed instead

……and play spot the passenger.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Service X4
Tranent to Haymarket, every hour. Re-routed to serve Edinburgh Road in Tranent, running straight through Dolphingstone to Wallyford. Tranent terminus is either Windygoul or Muirpark at Aldi depending on which 113 option is taken below.

I see the logic however I feel it would make more sense to see the X4 as it is with an X6 going direct onto the A1 after Tranent which could be very profitable if done correctly, and also reduces running time making Haymarket viable and good driver layovers.
An idea I’ve thought of myself is either an X4 or X13 from Ormiston following the N113 route then either follow X4 or X6 from there via Wallyford. (Peaks)

Service 106
Haddington to Fort Kinnaird only. In an ideal world this would be re-routed to serve Newcraighall again using the single decks freed up from the X7 reduction.

I would keep it going via QMU, but an option is running it via Tesco reducing running time. Obviously cut to either Fort Kinnaird or Royal Infimary (enhanced reliability and terminus relief). People may say it’s too similar to 108 however the 46/48 serve the section lost anyway and keeps the route open to a lot of allocations, perhaps mainly singles.

Service 113
Extended to Western General with either more running time in the peaks, meaning more layovers for better reliability, and an afternoon peak extra journey utilising one of the school buses. Alternatively re-routed to serve Windygoul and Charles River in Tranent, adding a 7th bus to the PVR for more running time.

113 going to the Western General is a given, however I myself think it would be a waste. 106 often carries no passengers at all in this section (literally 1 between Western General and Musselburgh on one occasion!) and 113 was the same. Windygoul is certainly an option as well however I don’t think many residents of Ormiston would be happy.

East Coast Buses cannot afford to be running almost empty buses right now. I know how important a hospital connection is for people

Service 120
Curtailed to Spott Road Asda in Dunbar to improve reliability. Currently there is very little recovery time on the Eve tender services.

I agree.

 

[InOban]

Bus journey times being 'killed by congestion' in cities

The industry warns that traffic jams are slowing average bus speeds and are calling for more priority measures for buses.

www.bbc.co.uk

An item (using the 38 as an example ) of the extended travel times caused by increased congestion, road works and cycle lanes. As you can guess, all the comments blame the cycle lanes

 

[stantheman]

Who dreams up the timetables ? They are a joke and if the company were fined as with trains due to late running ? Least punctual route ? The 32 gets my vote

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Who dreams up the timetables ? They are a joke and if the company were fined as with trains due to late running ? Least punctual route ? The 32 gets my vote

32 has tight constraints with the tender unfortunately.

 

[overthewater]

Half the blame has to go to Edinburgh City council and it's traffic management, lets be frank here how some of the traffic lights have been set up creates congestion. The Edinburgh Bypass isn't fit for purpose, and there is far too many cars going via City centre. Worse still there still not been any new improved transport links to North Edinburgh, which adds to the problem.

Here is Edinburgh in 1991, There are cars everywhere and yet the buses are more free flowing than today...

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Half the blame has to go to Edinburgh City council and it's traffic management, lets be frank here how some of the traffic lights have been set up creates congestion. The Edinburgh Bypass isn't fit for purpose, and there is far too many cars going via City centre. Worse still there still not been any new improved transport links to North Edinburgh, which adds to the problem.

Here is Edinburgh in 1991, There are cars everywhere and yet the buses are more free flowing than today...

From next year, the AVLs will be able to communicate with traffic lights to give buses priority if they've been waiting for a long time. Unsure how it works but hopefully it will help with reliability.

 

[Metal Mickey]

Who dreams up the timetables ? They are a joke and if the company were fined as with trains due to late running ? Least punctual route ? The 32 gets my vote

I’m finding more often these days that no two days or even two weeks are the same and it’s becoming increasingly challenging for operators to plan their networks for a variety of different reasons particularly roadworks, increased traffic levels and poorly parked vehicles.

 

[stantheman]

32 has tight constraints with the tender unfortunately.

And the timings can’t be changed ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2025 ==

Even years ago I used the X44 to return home to Balerno evenings and it was never on time arriving there

 

[Metal Mickey]

Deleted

 

[LothianBusesPh]

And the timings can’t be changed ?

It would require an extra bus which would increase the cost to run the route, which the council might refuse to fund.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It would require an extra bus which would increase the cost to run the route, which the council might refuse to fund.

They were talking about increasing the frequency at some point I think?, and adding a Sunday service.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

They were talking about increasing the frequency at some point I think?, and adding a Sunday service.

Frequency increase would come with an extra vehicle.

 

[318266]

From next year, the AVLs will be able to communicate with traffic lights to give buses priority if they've been waiting for a long time. Unsure how it works but hopefully it will help with reliability.

So, regardless, you will still likely wait a long time. Whilst it may result in a small improvement I fail to see if it will actually be worth the effort if it isn't actively prioritising public transport more generally.

 

[KGGXXXY]

Bus journey times being 'killed by congestion' in cities

The industry warns that traffic jams are slowing average bus speeds and are calling for more priority measures for buses.

www.bbc.co.uk

An item (using the 38 as an example ) of the extended travel times caused by increased congestion, road works and cycle lanes. As you can guess, all the comments blame the cycle lanes

Moved back to Glasgow ten years ago, but for the 10 years I lived in Edinburgh on the 38 Route it was always late in both directions, used to watch the "mins due" go up on the wee screens at the bus stop, and many a conversation with someone moaning about how its always late.

 

[overthewater]

The bigger question has to be is why is there soooo much traffic, the fares are cheap enough yet that doesn't result in even more bus passengers, so its has to come down to the fact the routes aren't good enough for % of the car drivers in Edinburgh and how does one fix that?

 

[paravostok]

The bigger question has to be is why is there soooo much traffic, the fares are cheap enough yet that doesn't result in even more bus passengers, so its has to come down to the fact the routes aren't good enough for % of the car drivers in Edinburgh and how does one fix that?

I think to an extent they're victims of their own success, a lot of buses are held up by other buses, especially in trunk parts of routes, and the issue is that the buses really should be an off-road link and you can only increase on-road frequency so much, and with bus times going up, more people are more likely to drive, and then it snowballs

 

[enginedin]

for % of the car drivers in Edinburgh and how does one fix that?

even if fares were free there will be a significant minority who just wouldn't want to use the bus

the fares are cheap enough

The fare structure actually frustrates me a bit: no return tickets and a flat rate means a "day return" from e.g. Gorgie to Haymarket (far enough that enough people would get a bus, but walkable by some) is £4.40, which seems pretty expensive. (Yes, I know that in terms of revenue this is cancelled out by relatively "cheap" cross-city tickets)

 

[Siemens Trains]

even if fares were free there will be a significant minority who just wouldn't want to use the bus



The fare structure actually frustrates me a bit: no return tickets and a flat rate means a "day return" from e.g. Gorgie to Haymarket (far enough that enough people would get a bus, but walkable by some) is £4.40, which seems pretty expensive. (Yes, I know that in terms of revenue this is cancelled out by relatively "cheap" cross-city tickets)

I suppose the flat fare system (which carries significant benefits for all) means some short hop fares can be higher in real terms compared to times when car ownership was less common.
But as you imply, those unable to walk or cycle such a short distance will travel free anyway.
£4.40 seems trivial compared to the cost of running a car for the sake of travelling between Gorgie and Haymarket. Of course once someone has invested a massive amount of money in a car, they tend to resent the odd £5 or £10 for a bus fare, regardless of how rich they are.

 

[enginedin]

which carries significant benefits for all

all? I almost always cycle to work. For the days I don't - I choose to get the tram (I'm lucky enough to live within a few mins walk of a tram stop) - and use the et app to buy a set of 10 (tram-only) day tickets, which are £3.50 each. For the same bus journey, I'd pay £4.40 - so I'd definitely lose out.

 

[Siemens Trains]

all? I almost always cycle to work. For the days I don't - I choose to get the tram (I'm lucky enough to live within a few mins walk of a tram stop) - and use the et app to buy a set of 10 (tram-only) day tickets, which are £3.50 each. For the same bus journey, I'd pay £4.40 - so I'd definitely lose out.

Apologies - I just meant a flat fare brings simplification benefit, meaning shorter boarding times and increased confidence that everyone pays the correct fare (including concessions). Those making longer journeys tend to win for cost versus trip length, but sitting on a bus for an hour isn't exactly everyone's idea of a grand day out.
Completely understand your position though.
And a happy Christmas to everyone!

 

[VioletEclipse]

32 has tight constraints with the tender unfortunately.

The 32 route is also quite a difficult one in terms of Barnton junction, Maybury junction, Calder Road and Riccarton Mains Road all being prone to significant congestion at cerain times of day. It's one of the least reliable in my experience too.

 

[gavin1985]

The 32 route is also quite a difficult one in terms of Barnton junction, Maybury junction, Calder Road and Riccarton Mains Road all being prone to significant congestion at cerain times of day. It's one of the least reliable in my experience too.

The lack of full traffic lights at the Bankhead/Calder Road roundabout never helps the congestion there.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 32 route is also quite a difficult one in terms of Barnton junction, Maybury junction, Calder Road and Riccarton Mains Road all being prone to significant congestion at cerain times of day. It's one of the least reliable in my experience too.

I had a period where i used the 32 alot in 2024-early 2025 and each time it was always delayed, i'm glad the service is around as it helps with connections, but it really needs reworked heavily personally, especully with timekeeping.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I had a period where i used the 32 alot in 2024-early 2025 and each time it was always delayed, i'm glad the service is around as it helps with connections, but it really needs reworked heavily personally, especully with timekeeping.

I think the tricky bit is justifying adding another bus. The council have talked about upping the frequency, likely to every 40 minutes, which would obviously add another bus, but realistically it’d need 2 extra so as to increase the layover at the same time. In my own opinion it still makes sense to transfer Turnhouse and West Craigs from the 68 to the 32 at that point. This would increase the route by up to 10 minutes in each direction (so 20 minutes in total) but crucially also allows an extra 20 minutes padding that can be used where necessary to improve reliability as the circuit would go up from 2 hours to 2 hours 40 minutes.

The 68 could therefore revert to an hourly service with a route that is just under an hour long, likely adding an extra journey in the process.

 

[enginedin]

The 32 gets my vote

This prompted me to look at the route map of the 32, which I've never needed to use. What's the rationale of the route? Purely people commuting from North West Edinburgh and Balerno / Currie to HW and the Gyle? If so, I'm surprised there's enough to demand for that route to be viable. Or am I missing something else it's useful for?