Lost Seat Reservation for Return Journey on Advance ticket

[monkey]

...just realised I havn't got my seat reservation for my return journey on my advanced ticket. I got a plus bus with my ticket from leeds to newcastle, and so I counted 5 tokens as I didn't realise the plusbus would be on a seperate token, so I probs left it in the machine.

is there anyway its valid? can I just take my booking reciept print out with me, as that has my seat reservation on? or do I have to buy a new ticket? this is sooo annoying, I'm normally so careful to check my tickets...

 

[John @ home]

is there anyway its valid? can I just take my booking reciept print out with me, as that has my seat reservation on?

As it stands, it's not valid. But there may be hope.

I notice you're from Leeds. As it happens, I know from personal experience the procedure for replacing a lost/uncollected reservation which was printed by an East Coast machine at Leeds station.

Allow plenty of time before your booked train, say, 2 hours. Go to the East Coast office at the entrance to the First Class lounge at Leeds station. Take your printout, all the tickets you do have, the card you used to collect the tickets and separate photo-id. Grovel. After checking everything, they should be able to issue a hand-written reservation for the train and seat you're reserved on.

There will be a procedure, possibly slightly different, if you used another TOC's machine.

John

 

[monkey]

...yeah but I'm in newcastle atm, I'm returning to leeds later. I was thinking of just getting a print out from my east coast account online. tried asking the woman at the info desk and she just blankly told me she can't cos its to prevent fraud... I don't understand the problem with reissiueing a nother reservation coupon...

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I'm afraid that in theory your ticket is not valid as you do not have the reservation.

However, I suspect, that in most cases if you presented your ticket, along with a print out of your confirmation email which shows that booking reference number which is also shown on the ticket (bottom right hand corner normally), and clearly shows the train time and seat you are booked on, you should be OK. Don't take my word for it, but if it was me then it shows you have made an effort and I can easily verify you are on the correct train, so you would be ok.

If you do what most people do, which is just sit there until the ticket is checked and just say "I've lost it" without making any effort to do something about it, then I fear you may have to pay again.

For good measure, hunt out the Guard before the train departs and explain the predicament. Most Guards will take kindly to someone making an effort and explaining themselves rather than just sitting there as though there isn't a problem.

 

[yorkie]

York station have done it before, they can find your booking and print you a replacement coupon. I am therefore surprised that Newcastle said no, but try another time and if you get someone else they'll probably do it.

I doubt EMT would bother helping you as it appears to be their policy to treat customers with contempt.

Northern at Leeds should be ok. If not, try a different window.

 

[monkey]

...hey guys, thanks for the help. I'm gonna do what kwvr45 has said, and hope for the best. I'm kinda annoyed at myself, I'm normally so careful with these things, but I also do think it is rather silly they wouldn't print me off cos of "fraud prevention". I mean its not like I didn't have the ticket, why would someone just fraud a seat reservation?

hopefully will get a kinda guard, although not holding my breath... as they do get commission for ticket sales. does anyone know if I do have to pay if they'll honour my railcard at least?

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure. The railways have ridiculous rules, some of which are very possibly illegal as they are very anti-consumer, so quite possibly not.

I would try again - you may get a sensible person next time.

I've had a situation where I bought a ticket (for another member of this forum) and it did not print the coupon. York station printed it, no problems. Some staff at Newcastle are helpful - a few years ago a Tyne Valley Ranger was cheaper than a Carlisle-Newcastle CDR, and I didn't actually know that. When I asked for a ticket to Carlisle, I was given the ranger as it was cheaper, by a friendly & helpful member of staff.

East coast franchise ticket office staff are generally helpful (King's Cross is a well-known exception) so I really would try again at Newcastle.

 

[John @ home]

...yeah but I'm in newcastle atm, I'm returning to leeds later

Then, if your journey is with East Coast, try the East Coast Office. I don't know where that is at Newcastle, but the East Coast First Class Lounge at the south end of platform 3 would be a good place to start looking for it. (Yes, I know that platform 3 at Newcastle runs from east to west, and that trains to the south may leave from either end, but the EC web site claims the FC lounge is at the south end!)

If you are travelling with TPE, then follow kwvr45's suggestion above. I would be inclined to arrive in time to meet the incoming TPE service and to approach the Conductor of that service on arrival. That would leave time for any suggested admin issues to be resolved before departure.

If you are travelling with XC, that company does not operate any stations and has few platform staff. I would take up the issue with the TOC whose machine issued you with the ticket, and then if unsuccessful with XC Customer Service.

I was thinking of just getting a print out from my east coast account online.

That in itself may not convince sceptical on-train staff. It is better to make every effort to deal with this before departure.

tried asking the woman at the info desk and she just blankly told me she can't cos its to prevent fraud.

I'm not surprised by this reaction. Last year, there was a well-publicised large fraud based on railway ticketing machines.

does anyone know if I do have to pay if they'll honour my railcard at least?

It does not seem likely to me that a member of train staff who had refused to accept your ticket and documentary evidence of a reservation would then allow a railcard discount. That's another reason to try to sort this before departure.

John

 

[monkey]

...well that was a relief. no ticket check... I was half asleep during a large portion of the journey anyway. but yeah that was pretty stressful. I just left it to chance, luckily nothing happened.

to me it seems again one of these stupid grey areas that leave passengers in limbo. I don't see how printing another seat reservation would cause fraud? I really don't? nor would I see the problem of accepting receipt with the relevant seat reservation on a problem either.

this happened to my sister apparently over summer, the guard was adamant she was trying to pull a fast one, and after a bit of fuss - he went away to check something and then came back and relented...

 

[LondonLarry]

...just realised I havn't got my seat reservation for my return journey on my advanced ticket. I got a plus bus with my ticket from leeds to newcastle, and so I counted 5 tokens as I didn't realise the plusbus would be on a seperate token, so I probs left it in the machine.

is there anyway its valid? can I just take my booking reciept print out with me, as that has my seat reservation on? or do I have to buy a new ticket? this is sooo annoying, I'm normally so careful to check my tickets...

This is how I would've resolved it in only a few minutes:

- Check the booking reference on your Advance ticket
- Recall booking to find seat reservation reference
- Recall seat reservation reference through RJIS/Journey Planner
- Print off
- Add note explaining why customer doesn't have a reservation coupon
- Add station stamp
- Hand to customer

Or is that too simplistic?

 

[gordonthemoron]

is it just me, or have ticket checks on ECML trains decreased since the introduction of ticket barriers?

 

[yorkie]

is it just me, or have ticket checks on ECML trains decreased since the introduction of ticket barriers?

happens everywhere! fine for suburban lines in major cities but madness for Inter-City style services

 

[Solent&Wessex]

is it just me, or have ticket checks on ECML trains decreased since the introduction of ticket barriers?

It's a well known fact that ticket barriers reduce ticket checks on trains and here's why:

Before Barriers:

Passengers join trains, some with and some without tickets. Guards sell tickets to those without thereby making some money, making the effort seem worthwhile, and gaining them commision.

After Barriers:

Passengers join trains, but (in theory) all with have a ticket of some sorts. Guard will sell very few if any tickets and wonder why he is bothering if everyone already has a ticket. Passengers realise that they have to have a ticket after all so they buy a short distance single or press railcard discount on self service machine which has recently been installed as part of the barrier plan. The only people which require the Guard to do something will be the fare dodgers who have brought a short distance ticket / no railcard etc and are trying it on. These are generally awkward to deal with, result in an argument or lots of paperwork of some sort or both. Guard takes very few £££'s but has had to deal with lots of scroats who are trying it on. Guard wonders why he has bothered and gets ****ed off. Guard decides it is far easier just to sit on a**e in back cab / guards van as everyone has a ticket except the odd scroat but he can't be arsed with arguing with them.

Net Result : Guard has same amount of **** to deal with, but has none of the easy stuff which results in them taking money. So they stay put and do nothing.


I have to say, provided you can put up with the arguments and the hassle barriers actually have advantages. The barriers at Leeds have been great as ticket sales for me have increased - but nearly all are now XS fares or new tickets for not having a railcard. Why? Because honest people who may have paid on the train before quite happily now go and get their ticket at the office or machine first. The dishonest types who want to try it on go to the self service machines, select Railcard discount (when they don't have one), choose "WYPTE Concession Single 35p" when they are not entitled to, or buy a single to Burley Park / Crossgates / Cottingley / Bramley and try and use it to get further- because they now have to have a ticket of some sorts they get a ticket, just not a valid one! Provided you don't mind dealing with the aforementioned scroats it is ok, but if you just like the easy tickets and leave the hard ones (which sadly some people do) then you are stuffed.

 

[Fincra5]

Well so far i have never had my seat reservation checked along with my advance ticket. IN my case all the guards do is look at the tickets, maybe stamp it and move on.

 

[142094]

Similar story when using advance tickets bought with newspaper promotions. I've done this around 3 or 4 times now and they have only once asked to check the tokens.

 

[theblackwatch]

It's a well known fact that ticket barriers reduce ticket checks on trains and here's why:

Before Barriers:

Passengers join trains, some with and some without tickets. Guards sell tickets to those without thereby making some money, making the effort seem worthwhile, and gaining them commision.

After Barriers:

Passengers join trains, but (in theory) all with have a ticket of some sorts. Guard will sell very few if any tickets and wonder why he is bothering if everyone already has a ticket. Passengers realise that they have to have a ticket after all so they buy a short distance single or press railcard discount on self service machine which has recently been installed as part of the barrier plan. The only people which require the Guard to do something will be the fare dodgers who have brought a short distance ticket / no railcard etc and are trying it on. These are generally awkward to deal with, result in an argument or lots of paperwork of some sort or both. Guard takes very few £££'s but has had to deal with lots of scroats who are trying it on. Guard wonders why he has bothered and gets ****ed off. Guard decides it is far easier just to sit on a**e in back cab / guards van as everyone has a ticket except the odd scroat but he can't be arsed with arguing with them.

Net Result : Guard has same amount of **** to deal with, but has none of the easy stuff which results in them taking money. So they stay put and do nothing.


I have to say, provided you can put up with the arguments and the hassle barriers actually have advantages. The barriers at Leeds have been great as ticket sales for me have increased - but nearly all are now XS fares or new tickets for not having a railcard. Why? Because honest people who may have paid on the train before quite happily now go and get their ticket at the office or machine first. The dishonest types who want to try it on go to the self service machines, select Railcard discount (when they don't have one), choose "WYPTE Concession Single 35p" when they are not entitled to, or buy a single to Burley Park / Crossgates / Cottingley / Bramley and try and use it to get further- because they now have to have a ticket of some sorts they get a ticket, just not a valid one! Provided you don't mind dealing with the aforementioned scroats it is ok, but if you just like the easy tickets and leave the hard ones (which sadly some people do) then you are stuffed.

I can understand the above in relation to conurbations such as Leeds, but I have found that National Express became very slack with regard to ticket checks between Kings Cross and York during their last year or so of operation. Travelling between York and oncaster (neither of which had barriers), I found it very unusual to be checked, yet XC would do, and even travelling from Kings Cross to York, again 'barrier free', I have done the entire journey unchecked.