lost my travel irregularities receipt?

[xkbxxch]

hey guys, i got caught the other day on the southwestern train to london for not having valid railcard for around half a year, maybe a bit more. they took my information, and by the end of it, i got handed a receipt ? and was told to keep it safe and that it has my reference number on it. i was really overwhelmed with everything happening, so i didn't read it, but i know it said "travel irregularities" on top. problem is, i can't find it anymore. i dont know what it said and i dont know if i should contact them about it, or how important it even was. what do i do, do i get in touch?

i'm also super afraid of things escalating. i took around 27 journeys? accidentally using a railcard when i didnt have one. i have bought and used railcards in the past responsibly though. what can i expect to happen? and also, what is short-faring, and how do things change if they suspect you for it? thank you. this is all so anxiety inducing but i appreciate any advice

 

[SECR 65]

Welcome to the forum,

I don't think it should matter that you've lost the Travel Irregularity Report (TIR). Provided you gave a correct name and address, they are able to (and almost certainly will) contact you.

They are likely to investigate your ticket purchase history, and will then send a letter advising that they've done this. You will then need to reply asking for a list of journeys they are concerned about, to which they will provide a spreadsheet for you to fill in. We can help you with what to say at each stage.

You are unlikely to be prosecuted, and, provided you cooperate, will hopefully be offered an out of court settlement, which will be the anytime single fare for each journey without a valid ticket, plus an admin fee, maybe about £150.

Short faring is when you purchase a ticket which only covers part of your journey. Sorry for the below example not being SWR but rather my territory. So say I live in Balcombe and want to travel to London Bridge. There aren't any barriers at Balcombe, so I only purchase a ticket for East Croydon to London Bridge. However, East Croydon has barriers, so the railway investigators can tell that you didn't start your journey from East Croydon, because your ticket wasn't scanned.

People often do it using Vauxhall to Waterloo tickets, and SWR are good at spotting it.

The process I've outlined above for what will happen next is exactly what would happen for short faring or invalid railcards.

There isn't much you can do until SWR get in touch - so check your post and emails carefully. If you haven't heard in about 4-5 months, let us know. You can also have a look at other SWR investigation threads on the forum.

 

[WesternLancer]

hey guys, i got caught the other day on the southwestern train to london for not having valid railcard for around half a year, maybe a bit more. they took my information, and by the end of it, i got handed a receipt ? and was told to keep it safe and that it has my reference number on it. i was really overwhelmed with everything happening, so i didn't read it, but i know it said "travel irregularities" on top. problem is, i can't find it anymore. i dont know what it said and i dont know if i should contact them about it, or how important it even was. what do i do, do i get in touch?

i'm also super afraid of things escalating. i took around 27 journeys? accidentally using a railcard when i didnt have one. i have bought and used railcards in the past responsibly though. what can i expect to happen? and also, what is short-faring, and how do things change if they suspect you for it? thank you. this is all so anxiety inducing but i appreciate any advice

Really it's best to wait for them to get in touch with you - as mentioned already - but this could take some weeks eg 4-8 weeks

An Irregularity Report is what tends to happen when they either suspect deliberate fare evasion, or for Railcard errors where they think it's likely the error has gone on for some time (either deliberately or unintentionally) and then the back office can instigate that and seek to obtain the correct fares from a passenger. This is as compared to a Penalty Fare - which is a one off charge for a ticketing error (£100 reduced to £50 if paid promptly plus the cost of the correct ticket on that one occasion) - you can see why 27 trips paid for wrongly might cost more than £50 so this is what they might do the report.

Short faring is different as explained, but clearly it's more obvious deliberate fare evasion. Were you doing that too?

You can e-mail them to get the ref number but no real point at this stage - tho if you have not heard from them in about 4 months head back here to consider options at that point.

What follows is general advice often given on the forum which will tell you in general terms what tends to happen, how to prepare for it, and what to do when you hear:

Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket (even unintentionally) and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The tone of your response might be different if the issue was unintentional - but the content needs to essentially be the same

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

 

[xkbxxch]

thank you SO much for all of this information, will come back here when theres any updates. and unfortunately short faring may be an issue here too if histories are checked, even though they said nothing about it / was initially stopped for the railcard. thank you again!!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @xkbxxch - to add to Western Lancer's excellent advice:

If the Train Operating Company (or their revenue-protection agent) contacts you, via email and/or postal letter, they will typically do one of the following:

1) They will not specify the actual journeys; but they will invite you to tell them of all the journeys you made without paying correct fare for the full journey.

2) They will send you a list of all your past journeys where they believe you did not pay the correct fare for the full journey.

If and when you hear from the TOC, by all means come back to this thread, adding a screenshot of their letter (with your details hidden on the letter).

In the meantime - and because your post 4 alludes to you short-faring too (so I am less inclined to believe that those 'no Railcard' 27 journeys were "accidentally"), I suggest you look back through your ticket purchase history and you make a list of all the tickets you bought which you know, honestly, were not valid for your full journey.

 

[xkbxxch]

thank you for additional information!! at first was relieved that most past journeys were short and cheap on the trainline app, thinking they may not think its a big deal / not escalate to court / would get away for the previous stuff, but when i learned thats actually probably suspicious to them, im thinking im going to need to be genuinely truthful about everything now. it's definitely not worth them finding out another way right

another question though, because i was taking a look and genuinely could not remember if some journeys were short-fared or not (because the town with better shops genuinely is just one stop over)-- what if youre not sure ? do you just write that down? definitely thinking ahead, but thank you again. i find myself getting anxious over this at random times. do you believe this will be resolved without anything extreme happening?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

another question though, because i was taking a look and genuinely could not remember if some journeys were short-fared or not (because the town with better shops genuinely is just one stop over)-- what if youre not sure ? do you just write that down? definitely thinking ahead, but thank you again. i find myself getting anxious over this at random times. do you believe this will be resolved without anything extreme happening?

Just be honest. If you know, then say what happened. If you don't know, then do a bit more research - for example, if you went shopping in the next town then your bank/credit card statements might show you buying things there. If you still don't know after that, tell them that you don't know. You might get the benefit of the doubt when you don't know - but the people dealing with this case aren't daft, so if you say <you don't know for half the one stop journeys but maybe you went shopping in the next town> they probably won't give you all of those as shopping trips.

As to whether anything 'extreme' will happen: almost always this sort of thing ends with you having to pay money - whether in an out of court settlement, or because you have been taken to court and you are fined. Unless there's something else to aggravate matters, you won't go to prison. The pain will mainly be to your bank account.

 

[WesternLancer]

Just be honest. If you know, then say what happened. If you don't know, then do a bit more research - for example, if you went shopping in the next town then your bank/credit card statements might show you buying things there. If you still don't know after that, tell them that you don't know. You might get the benefit of the doubt when you don't know - but the people dealing with this case aren't daft, so if you say <you don't know for half the one stop journeys but maybe you went shopping in the next town> they probably won't give you all of those as shopping trips.

As to whether anything 'extreme' will happen: almost always this sort of thing ends with you having to pay money - whether in an out of court settlement, or because you have been taken to court and you are fined. Unless there's something else to aggravate matters, you won't go to prison. The pain will mainly be to your bank account.

Good advice - I was going to suggest to the OP - if you think you may have genuinely gone one stop to the next town on a date on the list have a look for some plausible evidence of it - like a payment to a shop or bar or some such in that town - so get hold of bank statements etc for the period and look over them.

You can then answer questions with statement like:

'I believe I went shopping in x town on that date and my bank statements shows purchases there'

or for other occasions where you just don't know you can state

'I am unable to recall the if this ticket was correct'

The key point is not to lie.

You may, for example, be asked to show them the bank statement evidence.

 

[Haywain]

You can then answer questions with statement like:

'I believe I went shopping in x town on that date and my bank statements shows purchases there'

or for other occasions where you just don't know you can state

'I am unable to recall the if this ticket was correct'

The key point is not to lie.

You may, for example, be asked to show them the bank statement evidence.

I don't think we have ever seen one of these cases where someopne has been asked to provide evidence of any sort to follow up their completion of the spreadsheet.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't think we have ever seen one of these cases where someopne has been asked to provide evidence of any sort to follow up their completion of the spreadsheet.

I agree - and that's a helpful point to make for the OP - but of course the OP always has to presume that they just might ask for the evidence and be prepared for that.