Lost Debit Card used on eticket

[Arcadia77]

Hi guys, first time poster but found the site via Google when looking for advice, seems the right place!

I recently bought 3 seperate etickets as part of my journey from Carlisle to London and then London to Manchester (via Nuneaton!) this weekend.

Unfortunately, the card I used to pay for the tickets was retained/swallowed by a ATM recently (didn't even let me put the pin in, just malfunctioned!).

I rang up Virgin Trains Customer Services to see what could be done and they were very unhelpful. Their only suggestion was that I bought new tickets (a day before at a more expensive rate!) and then after the journey, I sent the "unused" etickets to them and they might refund them as a goodwill gesture in travel vouchers... therefore still leaving me more out of pocket than I would have been having paid more for new tickets.

I rang a second time just to check I'd not got one bad piece of advice but was told exactly the same thing. No sympathy for the fact that it wasn't my fault I didn't have the card anymore!

So I went to my bank and they were quite helpful, writing me out a letter on headed paper explaining the fact that my card was reported lost or stolen and a new one had been issued. It also confirmed that I had purchased the tickets and on which dates.

Rang CR again and the latest font of knowledge gave me the best response yet "I don't know". He said they might but he wouldn't want to guaruntee it.

I don't fancy forking out the full fare on the day and I'm considering risking it in the hope I get a sympathetic train manager who accepts the letter. Anyone else have experience of this?

The only other alternative if he doesn't accept it is just get the full fare to Oxenholme and then buy a ticket to London at the station there.

 

[First class]

Unfortunately the terms are explicit that the exact payment card must be presented.

It is not the fault of the railway the card has went missing... I would imagine that you won't even get Rail Vouchers if it is an ADVANCE ticket, knowing VT they will basically say "hard luck", which is probably fair IMO.

I strongly would not board a train without the card and leave it up to the Train Manager, as you will find yourself having to pay the Full Open Single for the journey, £150.50. Wanna risk it?

Personally, I would buy a Carlisle-London Off-Peak Rtn for £97.30 BEFORE BOARDING (valid to/via Manchester on the return). If the paper etickets are subsequently accepted for both legs without the card then send the £97.30 tickets in for a refund. You will be charged an admin fee of £10 though.

 

[Arcadia77]

Seems like common sense counts for sod all on the trains (I know that from experience already!).

Well if he says he can't accept the ticket can I ask him to just give me a ticket to Oxenholme and then get off there to buy the London ticket?

 

[First class]

Seems like common sense counts for sod all on the trains (I know that from experience already!).

Well if he says he can't accept the ticket can I ask him to just give me a ticket to Oxenholme and then get off there to buy the London ticket?

Common sense?

1) Explicitly says whilst booking payment card must be presented
2) Prevents fraudulent/ (mis) use of your card, (especially if a cash machine "malfunctioned" and decided to retain it!
3) You don't comply with the terms, what can you expect?

This isn't the railway fault!

 

[Arcadia77]

Well it wasn't my fault the card was taken by the cashpoint was it? Otherwise I'd happily have had the booking payment card present!

Going by your lack of sympathy I take it you work for Virgin Trains Customer Relations? :P

 

[TEW]

Does the letter from the bank have your card number, or at least the last four numbers of your card on the ticket. This is what is checked on the card. If the letter does not have the card number on then the train manager is very unlikely to accept your letter. Otherwise they may show discretion and let you travel. If they don't let you travel you could just buy a ticket to the next stop and a discounted ticket from there onwards.

 

[MikeWh]

Unfortunately the terms are explicit that the exact payment card must be presented.

It is not the fault of the railway the card has went missing... I would imagine that you won't even get Rail Vouchers if it is an ADVANCE ticket, knowing VT they will basically say "hard luck", which is probably fair IMO.

Fair! What planet do you live on? Would you think it was fair if it happened to you? Remember, all the OP did was put the card in an ATM which then malfunctioned. How could they hope to know that that was going to happen.

I strongly would not board a train without the card and leave it up to the Train Manager, as you will find yourself having to pay the Full Open Single for the journey, £150.50. Wanna risk it?

Personally, I would buy a Carlisle-London Off-Peak Rtn for £97.30 BEFORE BOARDING. If the paper etickets are subsequently accepted for both legs without the card then send the £97.30 tickets in for a refund. You will be charged an admin fee of £10 though.

If it was me doing this then I would take the letter from the bank with me and hope that it was ok. If it wasn't then I would only accept an UPFN and would write to the issuing company afterwards requesting that they cancel the UPFN. If they didn't I would see them in court.

Companies issuing tickets which require a bank/credit card to validate them must have procedures for what to do if the card is no longer in the customers posession through no fault of their own.

 

[First class]

Well it wasn't my fault the card was taken by the cashpoint was it? Otherwise I'd happily have had the booking payment card present!

Going by your lack of sympathy I take it you work for Virgin Trains Customer Relations? :P

But it is not VT fault, it is the bank!

You're blaming the wrong people!

VT can't be held responsible for a mistake made by either yourself, your bank or similar unrelated 3rd person!

I take it you took out travel insurance?? No?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Going by your lack of sympathy I take it you work for Virgin Trains Customer Relations? :P

Its a very unfortunate position to find yourself in, but I believe that First Class is giving you accurate and reliable information. (I take it you don't recognise good advice when its not what you'd like to hear).

Well if he says he can't accept the ticket can I ask him to just give me a ticket to Oxenholme and then get off there to buy the London ticket?

I would say that there is an astonishingly small chance that your letter from the bank will be accepted during any ticket inspection as a permission to travel, its just not worth even hoping for it.

You didn't answer the question of what type of ticket it was - were they 'Advance' tickets?
Do you have any other printed confirmation of the booking?
Its possible that you could, as MikeWh suggests, request an Unpaid Fare Notice (UPFN).

 

[TEW]

However, VT lose out on no revenue by allowing the OP travel. They do already have a ticket. Proof that the ticket is theirs, IMO should be sufficient to travel even if they don't have the payment card in exceptional circumstances such as this.

 

[Arcadia77]

Does the letter from the bank have your card number, or at least the last four numbers of your card on the ticket. This is what is checked on the card. If the letter does not have the card number on then the train manager is very unlikely to accept your letter. Otherwise they may show discretion and let you travel. If they don't let you travel you could just buy a ticket to the next stop and a discounted ticket from there onwards.

The letter does state the original card number (which includes the last four digits that are on the etickets). It also states that the tickets were purchased online using that original card.

Thanks for the advice re: getting off at Oxenholme too!

 

[Asian Demon]

My personal advice would be to take the ticket to the station before and maybe have a talk with the station. In london I know some rpo's/TM's who have asked for a photo ID aka passport/driving licence etc etc in the same name as the person on the ticket in cases of lost or stolen cards and have been fine with that but sadly that will come down to a discretion. Not much I can say really.

 

[Arcadia77]

They were advance tickets.

I do recognise it was good advice but still found the tone to be a bit "tough sh*t, your fault".

Also felt he was suggesting I wasn't being 100% truthful with putting "malfunction" in speech marks. Might have misread that though.

 

[Mojo]

This isn't the railway fault!

Might not be, but imagine if you had lost your card, you were mugged, had it taken by a cashpoint, etc. and you cannot tell me that you wouldn't be annoyed! I think Virgin can be blamed for being inflexible in unpredictable cases like this.

It does beg the question though why the railways have not come up with a better anti-fraud measure than insisting on the original purchase card being presented when tickets are examined? I have only used Print at home tickets once (and that was a good few years ago when Virgin were initially trialling it on the Birmingham to Euston route), but I have collected pre-paid goods from shops, travelled by coach, stayed at hotels, checked in for flights and visited attractions all which I have been granted access by showing a print out, a reference number on a scrap of paper or just giving my name!

Of course this is a different question and doesn't necessarily help the OP out, but is definitely some food for thought.

 

[yorkie]

I don't often use e-tickets, because I have concerns that a term that states I have to bring the exact card is unfair and I do not want to put myself in that position. Also I am allowing the TOC to save money but none of that saving is passed on to me. Therefore I generally avoid them.

My experiences are, out of about half a dozen journeys occasions, I have been asked for the card once. I was told that if I could not find the card, then any ID with my name on it would do. However none of my experiences are with Virgin. Your experience may differ from mine. What will happen in a situation like this will vary by guard. Some will simply check the e-ticket. Some will want to check some ID. Some will want to see the exact card.

My personal recommendation would be to avoid purchasing such tickets.

 

[Arcadia77]

Apologies if I'm come across as arsey but I'm incredibly frustrated by the whole situation.

 

[MikeWh]

As someone who has also suffered having my debit card swallowed by a faulty cash machine I can only sympathise with what you are going through.

So what Virgin (and those posters who seem to think they are being reasonable) are saying is that after purchasing e-tickets you must not use the credit/debit card for anthing else in case it gets confiscated. That is absolutely bonkers!

I say again. Companies offering tickets which require the bank card to validate them must have procedures in place to cope with problems like this. If they don't then I will never make use of this sort of facility. EVER.

 

[Mojo]

So what Virgin (and those posters who seem to think they are being reasonable) are saying is that after purchasing e-tickets you must not use the credit/debit card for anthing else in case it gets confiscated. That is absolutely bonkers!

Even that's not good enough. What if you get mugged or lose your purse? Even if you leave it at home your house might burn down or get burgled, meaning you can't present the card!

 

[barrykas]

I say again. Companies offering tickets which require the bank card to validate them must have procedures in place to cope with problems like this. If they don't then I will never make use of this sort of facility. EVER.

Then I suggest you don't buy a "self-print" ticket from Deutsche Bahn, as they swipe the chosen card as part of the ticket checking process. If you can't produce the correct ID, you're treated as not holding a valid ticket and have to pay an on the spot penalty fare (€40 or twice the single fare, whichever is higher). Leaving it nil paid is NOT an option AFAICT.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[IainH]

Err, yes, but DB also give you the opportunity of selecting a passport or identity card as the identifying document, which although you might lose it is not going to be swallowed by a machine in the interim.

 

[lemonic]

Err, yes, but DB also give you the opportunity of selecting a passport or identity card as the identifying document, which although you might lose it is not going to be swallowed by a machine in the interim.

Unfortunately selecting a passport as ID isn't an option I have found, although using an ID card is. I think altogether there are 5 accepted forms of ID which include the BahnCard (a railcard) and a Bahn.bonus card (a free loyalty card).

 

[WestCoast]

Then I suggest you don't buy a "self-print" ticket from Deutsche Bahn, as they swipe the chosen card as part of the ticket checking process. If you can't produce the correct ID, you're treated as not holding a valid ticket and have to pay an on the spot penalty fare (€40 or twice the single fare, whichever is higher). Leaving it nil paid is NOT an option AFAICT.

I've only used an e-ticket once for CrossCountry and it was fine, although I have used the e-ticket self-print system on Deutsche Bahn many times (I'd estimate at least 50%-60% of their long-distance passengers are now using them for both standard price and sparpreis advance tickets). You can only be fined on DB's S-Bahn, Regional and some Regional Express services - IC and ICE services offer full-price tickets (with a small supplement) for purchase onboard - most of the private operators offer onboard ticketing now.

I believe the reason why ticketing experts on here are resistant of the UK system is because it's inflexible and fragmented. The system on DB covers all services, including the private operators and can even be used for rovers/rangers and onward transport (bus/tram/metro) tickets. DB don't offer collection of tickets anymore from machines (they only offer postage or buy in person for traditional tickets) as the system has proved so succesful.

Err, yes, but DB also give you the opportunity of selecting a passport or identity card as the identifying document, which although you might lose it is not going to be swallowed by a machine in the interim.

Yes, the ID choices are even wider, you can choose between credit/debit card, ID card, BahnCard (railcard) and a loyalty card. So, it's a far better system.