Loop cut back at virginia water?

[pethadine82]

When you are driving down Trumps Green Road in virginia water there are 2 arches very close to each other. I initially thought this was the north south track on the weighbridge line but why build 2 bridges?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3...4!1siLnoXO3CJY-nC0Ot9jxhpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I then looked on google maps ariel view

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3996102,-0.5610278,331m/data=!3m1!1e3

It looks like there was a loop line from longcross to Chertsey bypassing virginia water.

Does anyone know why it was removed? What has happened to the land?

 

[30907]

On the basis of a quick Google the curve controlled by B and C signalboxes was opened in LSWR days and closed in 1966. ISTR the curves at Frimley closed around the same time

TBH I had guessed it was a wartime emergency connection, but the 1909 working timetable shows a couple of weekday goods trains Woking-Reading and vv and a Sunday Wimbledon-Reading and back which I presume was for day trippers (Reading on Thames...).
Woking Yard was then the LSWR's main marshalling yard for the area, but it was superseded by Feltham soon after, at which point the curve rather lost its point

It was used as a diversionary route and I think even electrified.

I am sure there's more to it than that but it's a start.

 

[MarkyT]

I suspect the Virginia Water west-south curve was of very little use for passenger diversions once the main line had been quadrupled. This is because Weybridge has only ever had a flat junction in an area dominated by fast running. A down slow move from the main line to Addlestone would have to cross three other busy tracks to get to the branch.

 

[Sean Emmett]

I suspect the Virginia Water west-south curve was of very little use for passenger diversions once the main line had been quadrupled. This is because Weybridge has only ever had a flat junction in an area dominated by fast running. A down slow move from the main line to Addlestone would have to cross three other busy tracks to get to the branch.

Yes, but Reading trains still get diverted that way, now requiring reversal clear of the junction at VW.
Most recent diversion Aug 2017 during Waterloo upgrade due to swans on the line at Egham...

 

[MarkyT]

Yes, but Reading trains still get diverted that way, now requiring reversal clear of the junction at VW.
Most recent diversion Aug 2017 during Waterloo upgrade due to swans on the line at Egham...

Fair enough. Presumably there were insufficient diversions via the route, planned or reactive, to justify keeping the direct chord when the reversal manoeuvre you describe was available. The date of closure ensured the chord and its junctions were never incorporated into the Feltham signalling centre project of the early 1970s.

 

[Helvellyn]

It always seemed odd that the junction at the Weybridge remained on the flat given the construction of the corresponding Byfleet Curve towards Woking (though I know that would have had more use for freight).

 

[XDM]

It always seemed odd that the junction at the Weybridge remained on the flat given the construction of the corresponding Byfleet Curve towards Woking (though I know that would have had more use for freight).

A flyover on the down slow at Weybridge would have to diverge at least 500 yards on the London side of Weybridge. That point on the main line is in a very deep steep cutting through St George's Hill. It would have been a costly job, even in the last century, with a new higher level Weybridge platform required. Ironically it is slightly easier to achieve now as the bridge over the twin tracks towards Addlestone, just on the country side of the main line junction, is now redundant & sealed off. So the bridge could be demolished without cost & the flyover could descend gradually onto the Addlestone line. Critics may say why bother? But it would revolutionise services from Chertsey & Addlestone to London. Both towns have grown enormously since the last century. With the restoration of the chord which is the subject of this thread, it could provide a faster route to Reading than the route via Barnes. But there are many other priorities on the Waterloo main line, the first, the flat junction at Woking.

 

[30907]

It always seemed odd that the junction at the Weybridge remained on the flat given the construction of the corresponding Byfleet Curve towards Woking (though I know that would have had more use for freight).

Lack of space essentially.

 

[30907]

Weybridge has only ever had a flat junction in an area dominated by fast running. A down slow move from the main line to Addlestone would have to cross three other busy tracks to get to the branch.

Nevertheless, 3 evening peak Waterloo to Chertsey (and beyond) trains ran until the Bournemouth electrification new timetable.

Just dug out the 1959 WTT, and it shows the West curve used by a Reading-Littlehampton or Bognor excursion 5 times midweek during the summer holidays. These went via the Blyfleet curve reversed at Havant, meaning EMU stock could be used (unlike the similar ones to Brighton which were steam, via Guildford and Christ's Hospital...).

Excursions like that were culled in the early 60s, after which I doubt there was any regular traffic.

 

[DerekC]

Lack of space essentially.

The grade separation on the Byfleet Curve went in between 1896 and 1914 judging by old maps. At that time there was nothing much immediately south of the railway around Weybridge station so I think if there had been a case for grade separation of Weybridge Junction they could have done it. The only problem would be getting the connection to the down slow back to main line level prior to the station.

 

[30907]

The grade separation on the Byfleet Curve went in between 1896 and 1914 judging by old maps. At that time there was nothing much immediately south of the railway around Weybridge station so I think if there had been a case for grade separation of Weybridge Junction they could have done it. The only problem would be getting the connection to the down slow back to main line level prior to the station.

I should have said lack of distance between station and junction. I agree it would have been possible, but it would have meant building a low level platform next to the existing down local, or relocating the down platform well towards London (like Raynes Park in mirror image).

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe they just ran out of money.

I would assume they had some sort of an expected priority order, maybe it depended on the service patterns of the day. The main missing flyover at Woking has always been explained as a financial issue, rather than being difficult to do.

I've often wondered how they ended up doing Pirbright Junction before Woking, maybe everything stopped at Woking at one time though. Might have had an impact on decision making.