Looking through the front cab window

[Harlesden]

How I miss the days of Western Region DMU's between Paddington/Ealing Broadway and Southall when I could sit in the front seat and look over the driver's shoulder to see out the front window.
Does the excitement of a cab ride (acknowledged as a great privilege to a non-employee) stem from being able to look out the front window (simple pleasure) or from seeing how the professional actually drives his train?
Does a driver giving an (authorized) cab ride prefer a chatty passenger or a fairly quiet one who prefers to simply sit back and enjoy the brief experience?
I'd think I'd be a fairly quiet one, but feel it is mainly young people who request cab rides rather than middle aged gray haired "old gits" like me.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

For me it's seeing out of the front. I had one from Wigan NW-Blackpool North (Northern Rail) during my work experience with them about 20 months ago. The driver wasn't too chatty but it was pretty cool non the less.

 

[Old Timer]

Cab rides in the UK are pretty much a thing of the past.

Apparantly despite all this training and a myriad of driving and safety aids, modern drivers are apparantly so easily distracted compared to our former BR drivers, that TOCs do not want anyone else in the cab at all.

Indeed I heard a tale a little while back about a Network Rail MOM being refused access to carry out a line search, because of the risk of "distraction". I believe it made the National Control Centre log.

 

[Wyvern]

I did like to watch the driver also to see how he managed the train.

 

[RPM]

I've changed my spots on this one! When I was a kid I used to love watching the driver working on DMUs. Now I'm a driver though, the thought of having passengers looking over my shoulder seems both distracting and uncomfortable.

In terms of having somebody along for an authorised cab ride, I'd prefer someone in the middle of the two extremes that you describe; a certain amount of chat would be absolutely fine but there are times when I need to concentrate harder which may even require me to stop talking mid-sentence. In any case there would have to be a Driver Standards Manager present so he'd probably answer the bulk of the questions anyway.

 

[GB]

Cab rides in the UK are pretty much a thing of the past.

Apparantly despite all this training and a myriad of driving and safety aids, modern drivers are apparantly so easily distracted compared to our former BR drivers, that TOCs do not want anyone else in the cab at all.

Indeed I heard a tale a little while back about a Network Rail MOM being refused access to carry out a line search, because of the risk of "distraction". I believe it made the National Control Centre log.

Perhaps the driver had not done his two years?

 

[TDK]

Perhaps the driver had not done his two years?

That depends on the company - there are may reasons why someone cannot enter the cab and it is usally that the driver is either post qualified (2 years) SMD (specially monitored) or the driver just don't want anyone in with them. I once refused what I thought an EWS road learner at Hereford as he said he had left his cab pass at home to be called a boil in the bag jobsworth - however the next driver let him in and was then approached by an NR official who said they had been watching this guy who was actually a spotter trying to gain access to the cab illegally - the driver was taken off, the train cancelled and the driver had his neck felt. I have refused many a person accessing my cab if they do not have the correct documentation, I once questioned the MD of the company I us3ed to work for and he produced his cab pass.

 

[BestWestern]

That depends on the company - there are may reasons why someone cannot enter the cab and it is usally that the driver is either post qualified (2 years) SMD (specially monitored) or the driver just don't want anyone in with them. I once refused what I thought an EWS road learner at Hereford as he said he had left his cab pass at home to be called a boil in the bag jobsworth - however the next driver let him in and was then approached by an NR official who said they had been watching this guy who was actually a spotter trying to gain access to the cab illegally - the driver was taken off, the train cancelled and the driver had his neck felt. I have refused many a person accessing my cab if they do not have the correct documentation, I once questioned the MD of the company I us3ed to work for and he produced his cab pass.

A very good call on your part! Too often I think people feel a pressure not to be the dreaded 'jobsworth', but sometimes it really is essential to do things as per the book.

 

[CosherB]

I would think the reason TOCs have strict rules about non-qualified folk in cabs is for reasons of liability rather than distraction, though distraction may be quoted as the reason why not. Imagine the field day the press would have if there was an incident and it transpired there was a non driver in the cab? It would also lay the TOC open to compensation claims in these litigious times if the incident led to injury or worse.

I do remember fondly the old DMUs mainly on the Manchester Central - Chester trains, and the occasional 'mean' driver who would pull down the blind behind him so we couldn't see forward! Incidentally, it's still possible to get 'driver's eye view' on this line on a Metrolink tram as far as Altrincham, but it looks very different now, much more confined, with just two tracks and a wall of trees either close by either side of the line.

I did once 'cab' as a schoolboy a MSJ&A EMU Altrincham to Sale. And my first ever footplate ride was on a Manchester Ship Canal tank engine in Trafford Park! It was easy back then - you just asked and often you got!

A friend of a friend in the '70s knew a guy who sometimes drank in his local with a driver, and one evening they were sharing a table in the pub when he expressed interest in having a cab ride. "Be on Stockport station platform end at 12:30 tomorrow" he was instructed. He duly appeared and as the 86 drew in on a London train the driver of the night before beckoned him into the cab. At first he watched, but after a while he was allowed to drive the train for extended periods! I expect the driver took over for any signal checks and for the final stop at Euston! Same on the return. Imagine that today!

 

[mountainmike]

When I was 8 we were on holidays in Scotland and returning from a day out in Mallaig to Fort William by train. I went up to the front of the platform at Mallaig station to look at the engine and the driver let me in the cab to have a look round. Shortly before we were due to leave my Dad came to look for me and the driver said that I was able to have a cab ride back to Fort William. At this my Dad asked if there was room for him and as a result we both were lucky enough to have the best view in the house on that beautiful line. The loco was 27003 - now long gone and the year was 1974 - also well before worries about liability , health and safety and so on. In fact thinking about it my parents would probably be in trouble nowadays for letting me out of their sight aged 8 and talking to strange men! Different times indeed.

I've also been lucky enough to cab the old 502 emus from Southport to Liverpool Exchange and out to Ormskirk around the same time. In those days as others have said if you asked nicely you often got lucky. Nowadays as I'm often in Vancouver on the new Canada line from the airport to downtown I really enjoy the view upfront where as there is no driver and a nice big window you can enjoy the view both in tunnel and out. Highly recommended.

 

[martin2345uk]

That's one thing I love about the Manchester Metrolink - you can sit up front and see the view ahead as clearly as if you were driving the thing. Plus when it's doing 50 along the former heavy rail lines it does feel like a train.
I take it there are no more heavy rail trains these days where you can do it?

 

[1018509]

I used to be a call point technician on LUL in the 70's. That is running repairs to keep the train in service. One particular driver used to call me often to take over the handle for a station or two while he took a smoke break.

This went on for several weeks not evey day but quite often.

The stock was 1959 tube. One day he called me again and I met the train and it was a 1938 stock 7 cars.

Very similar to 1959 but a massive amount heavier. At the next station stop we overran by 5 cars due to my inexperience in braking the heavier stock.

Luckily the driver was able to notify the guard that the train would not be stopping at xxxxx station and the incident was kept quiet.

Two promising railway careers could have ended there.

Can't see this happening today. Probably just as well.

 

[Grantham]

The view from the front is fun. Drivers vary as far as chat goes, mostly they're happy to carry on a conversation, but some are just quiet.

 

[BestWestern]

Can't see this happening today. Probably just as well.

Probably! Quite amusing to hear stories of what you could get away with back in the day though

 

[notadriver]

I found this :

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...ation and Management/Other/GOOTC504 Iss 1.pdf

The last page reads :

Drivers are constantly looking at signals, lineside signs as well as a number of indicators to track conditions. This enables them to make decisions as to when to start the braking process for signals, stations and speed restrictions. They are often preoccupied even though it may appear they are doing very little. Please do not distract them, particularly if they are operating any of the controls. Relay hay questions you may have to the accompanying railway representative.

 

[WestCoast]

That's one thing I love about the Manchester Metrolink - you can sit up front and see the view ahead as clearly as if you were driving the thing. Plus when it's doing 50 along the former heavy rail lines it does feel like a train.
I take it there are no more heavy rail trains these days where you can do it?

In the UK, no. Plenty of opportunities in mainland Europe though, where there are local units and high-speed trains which allow a forward view for passengers. The DB ICE offers a 'front lounge', and most drivers are comfortable with leaving the blind up. Some of the older InterCity push-pull sets also offer a forward view, but it's not a lounge.

 

[BestWestern]

I found this :

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...ation and Management/Other/GOOTC504 Iss 1.pdf

The last page reads :

Drivers are constantly looking at signals, lineside signs as well as a number of indicators to track conditions. This enables them to make decisions as to when to start the braking process for signals, stations and speed restrictions. They are often preoccupied even though it may appear they are doing very little. Please do not distract them, particularly if they are operating any of the controls. Relay hay questions you may have to the accompanying railway representative.

Hay questions?! That most probably would distract them!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the UK, no. Plenty of opportunities in mainland Europe though, where there are local units and high-speed trains which allow a forward view for passengers. The DB ICE offers a 'front lounge', and most drivers are comfortable with leaving the blind up. Some of the older InterCity push-pull sets also offer a forward view, but it's not a lounge.

I have to say, that would really bother me if I was driving. Fishbowl comes to mind! The newer train's 'Lounge' facility doesn't even appear to offer a particularly worthwhile forward view judging by that pic!

 

[lookingforit35]

The DLR is always good fun for admiring the front facing view.

And yes, all us be-suited 40 something business type folk do rush to get the best seats!

 

[notadriver]

Hay questions?! That most probably would distract them!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I have to say, that would really bother me if I was driving. Fishbowl comes to mind! The newer train's 'Lounge' facility doesn't even appear to offer a particularly worthwhile forward view judging by that pic!

Just out of curiosity I wonder how bus/coach drivers feel as they can be observed driving by any passenger.

 

[WestCoast]

I have to say, that would really bother me if I was driving. Fishbowl comes to mind! The newer train's 'Lounge' facility doesn't even appear to offer a particularly worthwhile forward view judging by that pic!

The picture doesn't really do it justice but if you're sat in the front four seats (or perhaps the row behind) you have quite a good view, but the drivers have the option I believe, and most leave the blind up! Perhaps it's a cultural thing, these drivers must be well used to it. The screen can be 'opaqued' at the touch of the button. Oh, and the lounge is the designated 'quiet carriage' - 1st class and 2nd class depending on the end of the train.

RENFE in Spain go a step further on their Velaros, you can have a business meeting in their AVE lounges. and they have more spacious seating in the other compartment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just out of curiosity I wonder how bus/coach drivers feel as they can be observed driving by any passenger.

I am sure they are used to it, just as train drivers are on the continent. They probably think it's strange that UK rail drivers would have a problem with it. Although, I can perhaps understand why drivers may be uncomfortable with it (at least initially).

 

[BestWestern]

Just out of curiosity I wonder how bus/coach drivers feel as they can be observed driving by any passenger.

Most buses have an opaque partition behind the driver's cab, which gives some privacy. Not so for coaches though, and it must be disconcerting having passengers sat up higher then you peering right down at you the whole time

 

[WestCoast]

I have also been on small passenger aircraft (less than 30 seats, where there are no cabin crew), and you have a partial or even full view into the flight deck and can observe the captain and co-pilot. There's no option of a 'blind'.

Back to trains, DB Regio Class 612s (among many other classes) offer a view.. It's incredibly common, many (if not most) of the new Bombardier/Alstom/Stadler DMUs or EMUs for regional work in mainland European countries just feature the glass screen. Again, it's up to the driver (or conductor at the rear if there is one) to decide if the blind should be up or down.

 

[CosherB]

I fly (these days) small aeroplanes, sometimes only 2 seats. Not only can the other person see everything that's going on, they have a set of flight controls and instruments and WILL be ecouraged to 'have a go' (what a lost opportunity if they don't!).

This is perfectly legal on non-commercial flights.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I was on the Manchester Metrolink yesterday (1010 from Stretford to Shudehill) and I sat right at the front (only because it was the only seat left!) and I realised I had a driver's view, was quite cool driving through central Manchester!

Blackpool's Trams also has this feature, particularly on their Balloon, Brush and Twin Cars.

 

[notadriver]

I forgot to mention Tyne and wear metro. Not sure if this is classified as main line. What about 150 units?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I found this :

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...ation and Management/Other/GOOTC504 Iss 1.pdf

The last page reads :

Drivers are constantly looking at signals, lineside signs as well as a number of indicators to track conditions. This enables them to make decisions as to when to start the braking process for signals, stations and speed restrictions. They are often preoccupied even though it may appear they are doing very little. Please do not distract them, particularly if they are operating any of the controls. Relay hay questions you may have to the accompanying railway representative.

That standard has been withdrawn.

 

[notadriver]

Yes of course it has. I was just trying to illustrate the skills a train driver has

 

[TDK]

I fly (these days) small aeroplanes, sometimes only 2 seats. Not only can the other person see everything that's going on, they have a set of flight controls and instruments and WILL be ecouraged to 'have a go' (what a lost opportunity if they don't!).

This is perfectly legal on non-commercial flights.

You could say the same with preserved railways I suppose - however the cab rides being discussed on here are commercial

 

[bILLOO]

You can see out the front of most Japanese trains.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I take it there are no more heavy rail trains these days where you can do it?

Class 121s on the Bay line in Cardiff, that's if the blinds aren't drawn.