Looking for an api for peak/anytime services

[lpgm]

Hello. I'm already using the apis from National Rail, and Network Rail via RTT for a simple departure board website. I'd like to identify if a particular service is a peak one/needs an anytime ticket. Do I already have access to this information, or is there some other api I need to use?

 

[mmh]

Hello. I'm already using the apis from National Rail, and Network Rail via RTT for a simple departure board website. I'd like to identify if a particular service is a peak one/needs an anytime ticket. Do I already have access to this information, or is there some other api I need to use?

There's no concept of a peak / off-peak train, but rather peak / off-peak journeys, ie. the end to end journey being made. A train may have people sat next to each other, one of whom needs an anytime ticker, the other off-peak (or in some cases, just super off-peak!)

Unfortunately for a live departure board type display indicating peak / off-peak doesn't fit with how the fare system works.

 

[jfollows]

Surely you're looking in the wrong place, because there's no such thing as a peak train.

So there's not going to be anything in information reported against a train. What matters is the ticket held, and its restrictions. It just happens that, especially for the majority of passengers seeking to board trains at London termini, their tickets have similar restrictions and so the trains that are barred to them, when they hold cheaper tickets, are commonly and erroneously referred to as "peak trains".

I see mmh has also made much the same point.

 

[lpgm]

Thanks for your replies. Yes, by 'service', I meant a specific journey from A to B at a certain time, not a whole train. I want to pick up and highlight, for example, the evening GWR services out of Paddington that now need an anytime ticket rather than an off-peak one.

My website has more than just the departures - you can click on a train and see the calling points too. So I guess it's perhaps not that 'simple'.

 

[jfollows]

Sorry if we weren't clear enough, but what you're saying isn't correct, there are no services out of Paddington or anywhere else that require an anytime ticket rather than an off-peak one.

An off-peak return from Bristol to London has restriction code "LC" which has all sorts of evening peak restrictions on departures from Paddington, for sure.

An off-peak return from Didcot Parkway to Ashford International has restriction code "4D" which has no restriction on return travel times after 09:30, and is valid on all afternoon and evening departures from London Paddington to Didcot Parkway.

It's the ticket for the journey being made which imposes the restriction, not the train.

However many, many people get this wrong, including many rail staff. I'd not like you to make the same mistake on your website.

 

[jfollows]

Basically, you're walking into a minefield, let me give you two examples:

1. The 18:02 departure from Paddington, if you call it a "peak" service then it is true that it's barred to an off-peak return from Bristol to London, but it's valid for the Didcot-Ashford off-peak ticket I mentioned before.
2. The 18:30 departure from Paddington appears also to be barred to off-peak returns with restriction code "LC", but there appears to be an electronic exemption which allows an off-peak return back to Kemble to be used on this service. This shows up if you try and book a Kemble-London off-peak return ticket online.

So even if you mark both of these services as "peak" and say something like "barred to off-peak tickets with restriction code 'LC' " then you're still not going to be completely right.

Bottom line is that if you choose to describe any train as a "peak" service it will not be true that it is invalid to use any off-peak ticket on that train, because there will almost certainly be some off-peak tickets which are valid on it. However it's not simple to determine which of these off-peak tickets are valid, and many staff either can't be bothered to check or aren't trained well enough to know.

 

[mmh]

An example on a route I regularly travel, London Euston to Llandudno Junction.

There are no evening peak restrictions for this journey, other than the 16:10 direct service. I'll often use the 16:40 to Manchester instead, where if I were going to Manchester, *starting from* Euston, I'd need an Anytime ticket. However, if I have an off-peak ticket from a station where travel via Kensington Olympia is permitted, I can join the 16:10 at its first stop, Milton Keynes.

Sadly I think it's going to be very difficult to visualise on a website for general use.

 

[lpgm]

Thanks for showing me what a minefield it is!

I'm looking at one of the new GWR timetables. Some services are in red, and the key says "Anytime ticket required when boarding this train here". I just wanted to find a way to pick this up through the various APIs. Oh well.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks for showing me what a minefield it is!

I'm looking at one of the new GWR timetables. Some services are in red, and the key says "Anytime ticket required when boarding this train here". I just wanted to find a way to pick this up through the various APIs. Oh well.

The problem is that I'm pretty sure this statement is incorrect, but I can see where this led you. It's also not surprising when railway staff such as those operating the gateline at Paddington say the same thing, and this problem has been frequently documented on this forum.

 

[jfollows]

An example on a route I regularly travel, London Euston to Llandudno Junction.

There are no evening peak restrictions for this journey, other than the 16:10 direct service. I'll often use the 16:40 to Manchester instead, where if I were going to Manchester, *starting from* Euston, I'd need an Anytime ticket.

And I hope the staff at Euston don't try and prevent you from using the 16:40 with the ticket you hold?