Looe Valley line survival

[Flinn Reed]

What has kept the Looe Valley line open as a National Rail service? I understand that it was almost closed as part of the Beeching cuts. Looe is relatively close to the main line at Liskeard, and itself is quite a small town - plus all intermediate stations are very rural with low passenger usage. The line perhaps seems more suitable for use as a heritage line, with passengers going to Looe having the choice between this and a bus service?

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'd love to hear a steamer climb the bank from Moorswater to Liskeard!

 

[Crawley Ben]

I'd love to hear a steamer climb the bank from Moorswater to Liskeard!

Happened in 2010 I believe when a steam train ran on the Looe Valley line (if I remember rightly)

Cheers

Ben

 

[Hardcastle]

I believe the Looe line was reprieved from closure because of road traffic congestion in the town.

 

[davetheguard]

Because in this case, Transport Minister Barbara Castle said "no".

Beeching didn't close any railways; the decision is always by the government minister.

 

[30907]

I believe the Looe line was reprieved from closure because of road traffic congestion in the town.

Correct.
The intermediate halts are just a bonus

 

[CW2]

It's a fascinating railway. Maybe ideal for conversion to a museum-type operation, part tourist, part community railway.

 

[yorksrob]

I would be against trying to turn it into any type of heritage railway as the hours run by such establishments tend to make them difficult to use for people trying to get to and from the town. Also, the fare from somewhere like Penzance would likely go up a lot.

I've relied on it on many occasions to visit the town and the current set up works very well.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I would be against trying to turn it into any type of heritage railway as the hours run by such establishments tend to make them difficult to use for people trying to get to and from the town. Also, the fare from somewhere like Penzance would likely go up a lot.

I've relied on it on many occasions to visit the town and the current set up works very well.

And I fully agree with this, useage seems to increase year on year during our annual day trip to Looe whilst on holiday elsewhere in Cornwall. The 153 single car DMUs were really beginning to struggle with passenger loadings just before their replacement by class 150 2 car units.

 

[yorksrob]

And I fully agree with this, useage seems to increase year on year during our annual day trip to Looe whilst on holiday elsewhere in Cornwall. The 153 single car DMUs were really beginning to struggle with passenger loadings just before their replacement by class 150 2 car units.

Indeed. I tend to go towards the end of the holiday season, and it's still well used. Lots of school pupils use it as well.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The May 2020 timetable (post COVID-19) is the best in the line's history so it isn't doing too badly - a broadly hourly service with some non-stop 'express' workings and early starts and late finishes. One interesting idea that has been floated is to create a P+R facility at Moorswater, adjacent to the A38, by slightly extending the line. The current facility at Liskeard station is too small, little advertised and a faff to get to from the by-pass. A short extension at the Looe end, and a new platform by the main river bridge would also be a big improvement. I don't think another heritage operation in Cornwall is appropriate, given that the Bodmin & Wenford is nearby. It would be a great line to experiment with battery railcars, however, given that it is self-contained with effectively its own station at Liskeard.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Indeed. I tend to go towards the end of the holiday season, and it's still well used. Lots of school pupils use it as well.

Yes, it appears to have a good mix of both local and tourist traffic.

 

[221129]

given that it is self-contained

Except it's not though.

 

[yorksrob]

One interesting idea that has been floated is to create a P+R facility at Moorswater, adjacent to the A38, by slightly extending the line. The current facility at Liskeard station is too small, little advertised and a faff to get to from the by-pass. A short extension at the Looe end, and a new platform by the main river bridge would also be a big improvement.

The Park and Ride at Moorswater is a pretty good idea - just looked at the map. It wouldn't add much on the journey time.

 

[richw]

The Park and Ride at Moorswater is a pretty good idea - just looked at the map. It wouldn't add much on the journey time.

Presumably somewhere between Coombe junction and the cement works?

 

[yorksrob]

Presumably somewhere between Coombe junction and the cement works?

Indeed. I hadn't noticed the main road is so near.

 

[Mikey C]

The May 2020 timetable (post COVID-19) is the best in the line's history so it isn't doing too badly - a broadly hourly service with some non-stop 'express' workings and early starts and late finishes. One interesting idea that has been floated is to create a P+R facility at Moorswater, adjacent to the A38, by slightly extending the line. The current facility at Liskeard station is too small, little advertised and a faff to get to from the by-pass. A short extension at the Looe end, and a new platform by the main river bridge would also be a big improvement. I don't think another heritage operation in Cornwall is appropriate, given that the Bodmin & Wenford is nearby. It would be a great line to experiment with battery railcars, however, given that it is self-contained with effectively its own station at Liskeard.

There would need to be a more frequent service than an hourly one to make park and ride attractive though, I can't imagine many people accepting a 55 minute wait for the connecting train, especially as if you're driving from Plymouth, going via Liskeard is already a very indirect route to drive to Looe

 

[John R]

The time penalty of going to Moorswater would mean an hourly service with one unit wouldn't work with the current rolling stock. That's because those services which go beyond Coombe ground frame to Coombe station have an extra 3 minute stop. Once to reverse in the station and the other to work the ground frame. Added to which would be at least another minute or so each way to the P&R station. It's fairly tight to do the standard hourly service already.

So unless something innovative like a hybrid battery 230 with much more oomph could slice a fair bit off journey times (which I'm sceptical about), it just isn't possible to do a standard pattern service with an efficient use of stock (and staff).

That would also be the case if you tried to justify a two unit service, which I guess could run a 40 min service, though would obviously need a loop somewhere, which would further slow the journey time and add to the capital cost somewhat. One possibility might be to alternate a two unit service with one only going as far as the P&R. Would still need a passing loop, but that might just make a 30 min service achievable, though I haven't tried to work it out in detail. It's certainly true that a 30 min service would be much more attractive, as demonstrated by the Falmouth and St Ives branches.

 

[30907]

The running time Coombe GF - Looe and back is near enough 40min. With a loop at Coombe you could easily operate every 40 min Looe-Moorswater-Liskeard and vv. That's the best I can work out with present timings.

 

[HSTEd]

To do any better than the current timetable the route likely needs a serious rationalisation and reconstruction in the vicinity of Coombe Junction.

 

[Parallel]

Not that it would be needed currently, but would it be possible to run an approx 30-40 minute service using two units, with one being locked in at the start of the Moorswater section (I think a P&R facility would be a great idea IMO!), and the second unit reversing just south of Coombe Junction as per now? The train locked into the Moorswater section (before reversing to Liskeard/Looe) could then run straight to/from Looe not calling at the request stops. If it is possible, I understand it would probably be a bit of a headache to operate, but would probably have some merit on summer Saturdays or during the school holidays.

 

[Jamesrob637]

This would be epic on a daily basis:

Okay you might need 2 or 3 of them to cope with tourists though!

 

[Tomnick]

Not that it would be needed currently, but would it be possible to run an approx 30-40 minute service using two units, with one being locked in at the start of the Moorswater section (I think a P&R facility would be a great idea IMO!), and the second unit reversing just south of Coombe Junction as per now? The train locked into the Moorswater section (before reversing to Liskeard/Looe) could then run straight to/from Looe not calling at the request stops. If it is possible, I understand it would probably be a bit of a headache to operate, but would probably have some merit on summer Saturdays or during the school holidays.

You’d have to wait until the unit from Looe was in the platform at Liskeard (and token restored) before the other one could come out from its hidey-hole though, and vice-versa if you did it the other way around (unit from Looe would need to be clear of the Moorswater ground frame before the opposite one could obtain its token to leave the platform at Liskeard). By the time you’ve faffed about with two ground frames, there’s probably no time saving to be had at all, but with the cost of longer journey times and an extra unit.

 

[edwin_m]

You’d have to wait until the unit from Looe was in the platform at Liskeard (and token restored) before the other one could come out from its hidey-hole though, and vice-versa if you did it the other way around (unit from Looe would need to be clear of the Moorswater ground frame before the opposite one could obtain its token to leave the platform at Liskeard). By the time you’ve faffed about with two ground frames, there’s probably no time saving to be had at all, but with the cost of longer journey times and an extra unit.

Re-signalling with remote control of the points at Coombe would save several minutes per round trip currently spent operating the frame and token machines. Having the P&R nearby could also justify closure of Coombe station.

 

[HSTEd]

How much would it csot to build an escalator/travellator walkway (or even a gondola lift!) from the west end of Liskeard's main line platforms to a suitable point on the Looe branch?
That way you could just run the unit back and forth and avoid the whole reversing procedure.

 

[ic31420]

I would be against trying to turn it into any type of heritage railway as the hours run by such establishments tend to make them difficult to use for people trying to get to and from the town. Also, the fare from somewhere like Penzance would likely go up.

This would be my concern.

I live a few hundred yards from one of the countries biggest and most popular heritage railways. I visit the railway on a couple of occasions at the most each year when an even I'm interested in is on. I could use the railway much more frequently as a means of getting from a to b but the fare is prohibitively expensive. The bus or driving and parking are cheaper and cycling is free. It's a real shame really. If often wondered if a commuter service might make sense for them, especially now the 142s are kicking about.

 

[yorksrob]

This would be my concern.

I live a few hundred yards from one of the countries biggest and most popular heritage railways. I visit the railway on a couple of occasions at the most each year when an even I'm interested in is on. I could use the railway much more frequently as a means of getting from a to b but the fare is prohibitively expensive. The bus or driving and parking are cheaper and cycling is free. It's a real shame really. If often wondered if a commuter service might make sense for them, especially now the 142s are kicking about.

Indeed. And crucially, the buses tend to run later as well.

Really, to make such a service useful to ordinary passengers requires an element of subsidy, which defeats the object of turning it over to the heritage sector in the first place.

 

[Harpers Tate]

How much would it csot to build an escalator/travellator walkway (or even a gondola lift!) from the west end of Liskeard's main line platforms to a suitable point on the Looe branch?
That way you could just run the unit back and forth and avoid the whole reversing procedure.

It's about half a mile as the (google) crow flies from Liskeard station to the closest point on the "straight" part of the branch (which is Coombe Halt give or take). I suspect not a cheap option.

The easiest (note - not necessarily cheapest) thing IF journey time was an issue would, I think, be to properly control and signal the pointwork so the traincrew weren't involved in its operation. Same thing on Esk Valley IMO.

 

[John R]

Really, to make such a service useful to ordinary passengers requires an element of subsidy, which defeats the object of turning it over to the heritage sector in the first place.

Preserved railways haven’t come into existence by an existing line being “turned over” in the way you suggest. They have been closed. What has then happened to them subsequently Isn’t a result of any policy by the national rail industry or government.

Still, with a regular hourly service and committed public service future, any talk of co-existence with a heritage operator would appear to be more suitable for the Speculative Ideas section.

 

[yorksrob]

Preserved railways haven’t come into existence by an existing line being “turned over” in the way you suggest. They have been closed. What has then happened to them subsequently Isn’t a result of any policy by the national rail industry or government.

But that was what was being suggested for this route upthread, which otherwise, doesn't seem to be under threat of closure.