Longest possible journey you can make on an Open Return ticket?

[asw]

Hi everyone, I was recently in a discussion with my friend about the Routeing Guide and complexity of “Any Permitted” Route, which leads to an interesting question.

Has anyone tried to set a record?

Assuming you purchase one and only one “anytime open return”, valid for return within a month, assuming trains are available, that you break your journey as you wish, but stick to the routing guide.

1. What is the longest permitted “scenic route” journey it is possible to make in the UK?
2. What is the longest “detour” that you could make? (i.e. most miles added on the direct)

And most interestingly.
3. What is the most stations you could conceivably visit (“get off train long enough for a photo”) on your return ticket?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's surely going to have to be Penzance to Wick and back, which I think covers quite a number of possible routes along the spine of the country?

 

[asw]

It's surely going to have to be Penzance to Wick and back, which I think covers quite a number of possible routes along the spine of the country?

My assumption is that this is the starting point, certainly for 1&3 but as for confirming it… bad enough working out a single route, let alone checking every route possible.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's surely going to have to be Penzance to Wick and back, which I think covers quite a number of possible routes along the spine of the country?

Would an Anytime Return for that allow travel via London, in order to significantly vary the possible route(s) out and back?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Would an Anytime Return for that allow travel via London, in order to significantly vary the possible route(s) out and back?

We need a fares expert for that - looking at BR Fares they are listed only as "any permitted" but there are some single fares on the same route which are higher priced via London than the equivalent any permitted. That comparison between the singles suggests the "via London" is a specific stated route for those singles and not an "any permitted" route, so I would suspect these open returns are probably not valid via London?

However, it wouldn't surprise me if they had a separate set of rules for identically marked singles against the returns...

 

[jfollows]

“Any permitted” tickets Penzance to Wick are valid via London, although they don’t have a maltese cross for the underground. Valid routes are many, shown in https://iblocks-rg-publication.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/yellow_pages.pdf under Penzance Group - Dingwall. The maps referred to are all at https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/maps.

Having validity via London means that all valid routes Penzance - London plus London - Dingwall are additionally valid.

Dingwall is the routeing point for Wick, which makes sense if you think about it.




I make that 69 different combinations of maps showing valid routes. Plus shortest route and any within 3 miles of the shortest route, although they’re probably included in the above.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

“Any permitted” tickets Penzance to Wick are valid via London, although they don’t have a maltese cross for the underground. .

Thanks for clarifying. So, £557.90 for an Anytime Return from Penzance to Wick, and the LU transfer is still likely to be extra?!

 

[bleeder4]

An Anytime Return Penzance to Wick. That's just given me an idea for something to do during my week off at Easter!

 

[35B]

An Anytime Return Penzance to Wick. That's just given me an idea for something to do during my week off at Easter!

Been there, done that! Won a free ticket from anywhere to anywhere back in 1991, and made a trip of it:
Day 1 - Travel to Penzance
Day 2 - Penzance to Glasgow (through service)
Day 3 - Glasgow - Far North - Inverness
Day 4 - Kyle branch, then to Glasgow
Day 5 - BLS Grampian Explorer tour
Day 6 - Glasgow - York - Penzance
Day 7 - Return home

 

[Bletchleyite]

An Anytime Return Penzance to Wick. That's just given me an idea for something to do during my week off at Easter!

£557.90, ouch. Cheaper than a 7 Day All Line Rover, though, and no time restrictions.

The Off Peak is perhaps better value at £328.20, though has the blanket XC "not before 0930" restriction. I doubt anyone would question the overnight stop on the outward as it's definitely "not possible to complete the journey in one day" without the involvement of an aeroplane!

Curious that it doesn't have a Maltese Cross as to be honest the only sensible way to do it is via London. XC is very slow and utterly grim, so you'd probably want to do it via the ECML. You can definitely get itineraries via London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Been there, done that! Won a free ticket from anywhere to anywhere back in 1991, and made a trip of it:
Day 1 - Travel to Penzance
Day 2 - Penzance to Glasgow (through service)
Day 3 - Glasgow - Far North - Inverness
Day 4 - Kyle branch, then to Glasgow
Day 5 - BLS Grampian Explorer tour
Day 6 - Glasgow - York - Penzance
Day 7 - Return home

That would be great in the days of comfortable rolling stock, but a Voyager from Penzance to Scotland you can forget, unless there's a cheap first class Advance available!

 

[35B]

That would be great in the days of comfortable rolling stock, but a Voyager from Penzance to Scotland you can forget, unless there's a cheap first class Advance available!

I travelled down to Penzance from London, so had NSE Mk2s to Exeter, a 47 + MK2 to Penzance/HST back; then HST, HSTs to Glasgow, 156s and 158s in Scotland, and then Mk4 to York/HST on to Penzance. All in Standard.

 

[bleeder4]

£557.90, ouch. Cheaper than a 7 Day All Line Rover, though, and no time restrictions.

The Off Peak is perhaps better value at £328.20, though has the blanket XC "not before 0930" restriction. I doubt anyone would question the overnight stop on the outward as it's definitely "not possible to complete the journey in one day" without the involvement of an aeroplane!

Curious that it doesn't have a Maltese Cross as to be honest the only sensible way to do it is via London. XC is very slow and utterly grim, so you'd probably want to do it via the ECML. You can definitely get itineraries via London.

I actually think £557.90 is pretty good value. It's for travelling the entire length of the country, twice. It's about 1200 miles and 24 hours travelling time on various trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually think £557.90 is pretty good value. It's for travelling the entire length of the country, twice. It's about 1200 miles and 24 hours travelling time on various trains.

It's certainly better value than some middle distance Anytimes such as the classic outrageously priced Manchester-London, but I'd time my start to be after 0930 to take advantage of the much better value Off Peak ticket.

 

[Djgr]

Been there, done that! Won a free ticket from anywhere to anywhere back in 1991, and made a trip of it:
Day 1 - Travel to Penzance
Day 2 - Penzance to Glasgow (through service)
Day 3 - Glasgow - Far North - Inverness
Day 4 - Kyle branch, then to Glasgow
Day 5 - BLS Grampian Explorer tour
Day 6 - Glasgow - York - Penzance
Day 7 - Return home

In the good old days, they gave one of these away with a Student Railcard promotion. I bought several railcards that year!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

£557.90, ouch.

...or £371.55 with a railcard?

 

[A S Leib]

I actually think £557.90 is pretty good value. It's for travelling the entire length of the country, twice. It's about 1200 miles and 24 hours travelling time on various trains.

It's almost twice the cost of a four day in a month Interrail pass and return Eurostar reservations, which would be long enough to get from Aberdeen to Vienna and back (1400+ miles each way).

 

[yorksrob]

“Any permitted” tickets Penzance to Wick are valid via London, although they don’t have a maltese cross for the underground. Valid routes are many, shown in https://iblocks-rg-publication.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/yellow_pages.pdf under Penzance Group - Dingwall. The maps referred to are all at https://rgpp.iblocks.co.uk/maps.

Having validity via London means that all valid routes Penzance - London plus London - Dingwall are additionally valid.

Dingwall is the routeing point for Wick, which makes sense if you think about it.

View attachment 197701
View attachment 197702
View attachment 197703
I make that 69 different combinations of maps showing valid routes. Plus shortest route and any within 3 miles of the shortest route, although they’re probably included in the above.

Be sure to go via Salisbury and Waterloo !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Be sure to go via Salisbury and Waterloo !

I wouldn't, the line is more than a bit boring. Far better views on the GW proper. The only reason to go via Salisbury is to save a few quid, but that's not applicable if you're going to buy one of the priciest tickets on the network!

For best views I'd recommend going via Bristol, switch from the right to the left of the train there as the rather lovely views between Bristol and Bath are mostly on the left but obviously you want to be on the right for Dawlish. Though sadly there's no longer a Sunday afternoon through service that way, I used to quite like that one.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't, the line is more than a bit boring. Far better views on the GW proper. The only reason to go via Salisbury is to save a few quid, but that's not applicable if you're going to buy one of the priciest tickets on the network!

For best views I'd recommend going via Bristol, switch from the right to the left of the train there as the rather lovely views between Bristol and Bath are mostly on the left but obviously you want to be on the right for Dawlish. Though sadly there's no longer a Sunday afternoon through service that way, I used to quite like that one.

More relaxed than being crowded on an inter-city train !

 

[35B]

I wouldn't, the line is more than a bit boring. Far better views on the GW proper. The only reason to go via Salisbury is to save a few quid, but that's not applicable if you're going to buy one of the priciest tickets on the network!

For best views I'd recommend going via Bristol, switch from the right to the left of the train there as the rather lovely views between Bristol and Bath are mostly on the left but obviously you want to be on the right for Dawlish. Though sadly there's no longer a Sunday afternoon through service that way, I used to quite like that one.

Disagree strongly on that - the LSW is significantly nicer IMHO. Unfortunately, the seats haven’t been the same since the MK2s left, and legroom in a 159 is appalling.

 

[fwsmVor]

On an open return? How many KGX-EDBs can you do before getting it clipped?

 

[yorksrob]

Disagree strongly on that - the LSW is significantly nicer IMHO. Unfortunately, the seats haven’t been the same since the MK2s left, and legroom in a 159 is appalling.

Both the routes are lovely countryside. Generally I find the trip to Salisbury more relaxing, and of course I can use my Network Card !

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's surely going to have to be Penzance to Wick and back, which I think covers quite a number of possible routes along the spine of the country?

In the days of Priv tickets, a Tinsley co-driver I knew used to get with his allowance of priv tickets a return of Penzance to Wick. Has to be the longest or extremely close.

 

[The exile]

Disagree strongly on that - the LSW is significantly nicer IMHO. Unfortunately, the seats haven’t been the same since the MK2s left, and legroom in a 159 is appalling.

They’re still preferable to those on IETs

 

[35B]

They’re still preferable to those on IETs

At 6’6” I beg to differ!