Longest non-stop distance on former SR lines

[Cricketer8for9]

And, as per an earlier thread, different routes could be accepted without question in certain places.

 

[30907]

Thank you for the various responses to my original post. Happy for the former "boat trains" to count. A supplementary question which now occurs. Was their any latitude for any of these "non-stoppers" to be routed differently from their "classic route" to suit the exigencies of operations on the day?

Undoubtedly, as Bald Rick has just said.
Up boat trains would routinely be diverted if the boat was late.
Engineering works could mean diversions via Chatham (slightly shorter but slower), via Maidstone E (2 miles longer) or via Bat and Ball (3 miles further but not so slow) - plus the Catford Loop adds a mile and traincrew were instructed to accept it without specific authorisation.
Similarly London-Folkestone via Maidstone E was/is a routine diversion, and there was a summer Saturday train booked (slowly!) non-stop to Ashford that way in steam/diesel days.
Victoria to Chatham and beyond via Nunhead, Lewisham and Dartford was occasionally done, but I doubt any long non-stop runs were timetabled.

As for the long(ish) distances on other Divisions:
Waterloo-Woking via Staines then
Woking-Southampton etc via Alton "over the Alps"
were both possible.
Except for major works, though, Sunday single line working was more common (H and S being less of an issue and steam trains infrequent then), and the same would apply in emergencies. I don't recall Waterloo-Southampton-Salisbury, and that would probably have required a water stop anyway.

 

[Rescars]

Getting creative, the Brighton Belle routinely ran non-stop, so this is certainly a record - at least for an all Pullman emu. Others with access to relevant Bradshaws may be able to calculate if the Sunny South Express ran longer distances non-stop, but this no doubt depended on where the locos were changed.







In more recent times, did anything run non-stop from Waterloo International to Paris?







A final wild-card - what were the longest non-stop stretches covered by the Pines Express over the S&D?

 

[Taunton]

In more recent times, did anything run non-stop from Waterloo International to Paris?


A final wild-card - what were the longest non-stop stretches covered by the Pines Express over the S&D?

Well done! Of course, it was the far and away the longest non-stop "on former SR lines". And what could be more Southern than running on 3rd rail. Most of the services (including the inaugural, with me) were non-stop to Paris. 215 miles, I believe, pretty much London to Plymouth - or, to take the 1910 boat express I quoted above, the two legs, stopping at Templecombe, added together.

The Pines stopped everywhere, both on the Southern/S&D bit and all the way up to Manchester.

 

[Rescars]

Though to be fair to all parties, the SNCF has never been part of the SR!

Another wild card. During the Dunkirk evacuation, did the troop trains heading west run non-stop from Dover to the reversal at Redhill?

 

[yorksrob]

Though to be fair to all parties, the SNCF has never been part of the SR!

Another wild card. During the Dunkirk evacuation, did the troop trains heading west run non-stop from Dover to the reversal at Redhill?

Lots of them stopped off at stations like Headcorn so the soldiers could get a well deserved cuppa.

There was an excellent article in Backtrack a couple of years ago. Tonbridge - Redhill effectively became the main line again for a couple of weeks.

 

[Wychwood93]

Well done! Of course, it was the far and away the longest non-stop "on former SR lines". And what could be more Southern than running on 3rd rail. Most of the services (including the inaugural, with me) were non-stop to Paris. 215 miles, I believe, pretty much London to Plymouth - or, to take the 1910 boat express I quoted above, the two legs, stopping at Templecombe, added together.

The Pines stopped everywhere, both on the Southern/S&D bit and all the way up to Manchester.

Waterloo International to Gare du Nord a touch over 307 miles - both for the original route and via HS1 - the latter a tad longer.

 

[Paulwoking]

A few months ago I joined a Poole Waterloo train during a period of disruption. After a number of announcements a clearly automated voice said 'This train is non stop from Bournemouth to Waterloo '. I perked up a bit and contemplated a number of scenarios including at what speed we would pass Southampton! Sadly a human voice rapidly disabused me.

 

[GordonT]

Waterloo International to Gare du Nord a touch over 307 miles - both for the original route and via HS1 - the latter a tad longer.

I'm probably just being greedy but did any of the oddball "non Paris" journeys e.g. to Disneyland, Avignon, French Alps etc. ever run non-stop from Waterloo or were they creatures of the move to St.P?

 

[Taunton]

I'm probably just being greedy but did any of the oddball "non Paris" journeys e.g. to Disneyland, Avignon, French Alps etc. ever run non-stop from Waterloo or were they creatures of the move to St.P?

Indeed. There was in 2006 a nonstop from Waterloo to Cannes, in conjunction with a Tom Hanks movie, with all the stars on board, and which was done deliberately for a world nonstop record. 883 miles. Apparently Tom Hanks himself is a significant model railway buff.

Press note here :

'Code' On Record Ride

'The Da Vinci Code' Cast Arrives In Cannes On High-Speed Train

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Perhaps my memories are wrong, but I'm sure there were two, possibly three, non stop trains between Waterloo East and Dover Priory on a Sunday in connection with the the hovercraft from Dover to Boulogne and train connections to Paris. I think these left Charing Cross at 0700, 1000 and 1300.

 

[jfollows]

Perhaps my memories are wrong, but I'm sure there were two, possibly three, non stop trains between Waterloo East and Dover Priory on a Sunday in connection with the the hovercraft from Dover to Boulogne and train connections to Paris. I think these left Charing Cross at 0700, 1000 and 1300.

In 1978-79 there were:

1. 1R00 4 07:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 08:28 NA UNTIL 24 SEP AND FROM 17 DEC
2. 1R02 4 08:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 09:28 4 JUN TO 22 OCT
3. 1R04 4 09:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 10:28
4. 1R06 4 10:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 11:28 NA 1 TO 22 OCT
5. 1R08 4 11:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 12:28
6. 1R10 4 12:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 13:28 NA 1 TO 22 OCT
7. 1R12 4 13:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 14:28
8. 1R14 4 14:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 15:28 NA 1 TO 22 OCT
9. 5R16 4 ECS 15.00 Charing Cross - Ashford - Dover Priory 16.25 1 TO 22 OCT empty coaching stock
10. 1R18 4 16:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 17:28
11. 5R20 4 ECS 17.00 Charing Cross - Ashford - Dover Priory 18.25 1 TO 22 OCT empty coaching stock
12. 1R20 4 18:00 Charing Cross - Waterloo East - Ashford - Folkestone Central - Dover Priory 19:28 UNTIL 24 SEP

up workings at xx.12 from Dover Priory from 09:12 to 20:12, variously dated and not advertised

NA - not advertised

I went by hovercraft in summer 1975 but I don't think on a Sunday.

EDIT The public timetable (1977-78 this time) shows the advertised services:

 

[zwk500]

Waterloo International to Gare du Nord a touch over 307 miles - both for the original route and via HS1 - the latter a tad longer.

Indeed. There was in 2006 a nonstop from Waterloo to Cannes, in conjunction with a Tom Hanks movie, with all the stars on board, and which was done deliberately for a world nonstop record. 883 miles. Apparently Tom Hanks himself is a significant model railway buff.

This only counts as 110km (68 miles) on fomer BR(S) lines, and even then that's stretching the definition. Eurotunnel and SNCF/Chemin de Fer du Nord were never BR, and strictly speaking neither was HS1 from Dollands moor to London. Otherwise we might as well start including the various holiday trains from the North and Midlands to the south coast.

 

[nw1]

I selected 1975 (not quite) at random from my timetable collection.

Both of these were hourly off peak in 1975. Victoria-Brighton was also hourly non-stop.

To add to that, I remember the xx55 out of Charing Cross was Waterloo East to Ashford non-stop in the 1986 and 1987 timetables.

From old timetables and CWNs that I have, the xx00 service shown in the 1978 WTT upthread still existed in the 1981 and 1982 timetables.

By "my day" (80s) all Brighton services called at East Croydon, I think this was introduced 1978?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jan 2023 ==

Well done! Of course, it was the far and away the longest non-stop "on former SR lines". And what could be more Southern than running on 3rd rail. Most of the services (including the inaugural, with me) were non-stop to Paris. 215 miles, I believe, pretty much London to Plymouth - or, to take the 1910 boat express I quoted above, the two legs, stopping at Templecombe, added together.

The Pines stopped everywhere, both on the Southern/S&D bit and all the way up to Manchester.

Indeed, I think you can count the original Eurostar given it used the regular 3rd rail lines and shared the route with CEPs. And you can't get much more Southern Region than that!

 

[zwk500]

Indeed, I think you can count the original Eurostar given it used the regular 3rd rail lines and shared the route with CEPs. And you can't get much more Southern Region than that!

Agreed, the Services to Waterloo certainly ran on former BR(S) lines. But BR lines ran out about 2km past Saltwood Jn, where the Eurotunnel boundary is.

 

[Taunton]

Perhaps my memories are wrong, but I'm sure there were two, possibly three, non stop trains between Waterloo East and Dover Priory on a Sunday in connection with the the hovercraft from Dover to Boulogne and train connections to Paris. I think these left Charing Cross at 0700, 1000 and 1300.

This also rings a bell, that there were for a (short) while some specific trains run from Charing Cross to Dover Priory for the hovercraft, they were not in the normal timetable for the line but were in the International supplement, and in Cooks Continental Timetable as well. Just a single 4-CEP. This synchronised in with SNCF now providing a 5-car turbotrain, cascaded from the Cherbourg line, instead of the former and unsuitable Caravelle dmu, between Boulogne Hoverport and Paris. After a while it was found more effective to put passengers just in reserved coaches on the mainstream express from Charing Cross. In the Up direction, as there were several departures per hour from Dover, it could be more efficient to just take the first departure when you got there rather than wait for the special; although they went different ways across Kent, overall times to London were similar.

 

[GordonT]

This also rings a bell, that there were for a (short) while some specific trains run from Charing Cross to Dover Priory for the hovercraft, they were not in the normal timetable for the line but were in the International supplement, and in Cooks Continental Timetable as well. Just a single 4-CEP. This synchronised in with SNCF now providing a 5-car turbotrain, cascaded from the Cherbourg line, instead of the former and unsuitable Caravelle dmu, between Boulogne Hoverport and Paris. After a while it was found more effective to put passengers just in reserved coaches on the mainstream express from Charing Cross. In the Up direction, as there were several departures per hour from Dover, it could be more efficient to just take the first departure when you got there rather than wait for the special; although they went different ways across Kent, overall times to London were similar.

Have vague memories as a child going on a family holiday to Paris leaving early afternoon from Victoria non-stop to Folkestone Harbour in mid-1960s.

 

[30907]

Have vague memories as a child going on a family holiday to Paris leaving early afternoon from Victoria non-stop to Folkestone Harbour in mid-1960s.

The boat trains were traditionally non-stop to the port (or Folkestone East sidings).

OT: slightly annoying if you lived (as I did) in Bromley, though in the early 70s Dover Marine gained ordinary passenger trains (via Chatham) which improved things.

 

[yorksrob]

The boat trains were traditionally non-stop to the port (or Folkestone East sidings).

OT: slightly annoying if you lived (as I did) in Bromley, though in the early 70s Dover Marine gained ordinary passenger trains (via Chatham) which improved things.

That's interesting. I'd assumed that ordinary Chatham line trains went to Marine at least from electrification.

 

[30907]

That's interesting. I'd assumed that ordinary Chatham line trains went to Marine at least from electrification.

Local stock was berthed there overnight, and there was a 4.50am Shorncliffe-Marine-Canterbury E (the Marine reversal unadvertised) which went back to steam days. It left Marine just after the night Ostend boat train.

The xx40 fasts were extended to Marine by 1971 - I'm not sure whether it was to tap the No Passport daytrip market or to keep the units out of the way at Priory

 

[randyrippley]

Did the 1950's prototype diesels on Waterloo-Exeter ever run non-stop? Presumably they had no reason to change locos

 

[30907]

Did the 1950's prototype diesels on Waterloo-Exeter ever run non-stop? Presumably they had no reason to change locos

AFAIK they weren't diagrammed to the Devon Belle (which ISTR stopped at Sidmouth Jn anyway), so no.

 

[Taunton]

AFAIK they weren't diagrammed to the Devon Belle (which ISTR stopped at Sidmouth Jn anyway), so no.

The Devon Belle also stopped at Wilton, one station west of Salisbury, to change locos. I think they just didn't want to do it at the Salisbury platform, and the relief loco was sent out there. There was a longstanding belief that running nonstop through Salisbury was banned after the 1906 accident, probably not officially (clearly freight was not stopped in the station) but it just wasn't contemplated, nor practical to do so with the absence of water troughs. I suspect the Devon Belle was given a severe speed limit.

 

[30907]

The Devon Belle also stopped at Wilton, one station west of Salisbury, to change locos. I think they just didn't want to do it at the Salisbury platform, and the relief loco was sent out there.

The stop was intentionally not advertised hence "hidden" at Wilton - had a diesel been diagrammed, it could have omitted the stop. Hence my comment.
As you say, no other passenger train omitted Salisbury.

 

[Taunton]

The stop was intentionally not advertised hence "hidden" at Wilton - had a diesel been diagrammed, it could have omitted the stop. Hence my comment.
As you say, no other passenger train omitted Salisbury.

However, Nine Elms would not know the line beyond Salisbury, and Exeter crews likewise not know up to London. Salisbury crews would know both ways, but if not stopping there they wouldn't be up for it either. So a Salisbury stop was necessary.

 

[paul1609]

In more recent times, did anything run non-stop from Waterloo International to Paris?

Yes, but the Down South of France Eurostar also ran nonstop between Ashford International and Lyon

 

[zwk500]

Yes, but the Down South of France Eurostar also ran nonstop between Ashford International and Lyon

London to Ashford and Ashford to the ET Boundary are hardly the longest non-stop runs on the SR!

 

[32475]

Just a thought to ponder on: the Night Ferry ships owned by the Southern Railway and latterly BR had rails which went from Dover to Dunkirk and as such connected to SNCF metals at the point of docking and unloading. Therefore the Victoria to Dover distance had an add on of 30 plus miles but not strictly non-stop!
Yes I know this doesn’t answer the question asked in the first place but it’s worthy of note.

 

[GordonT]

Just a thought to ponder on: the Night Ferry ships owned by the Southern Railway and latterly BR had rails which went from Dover to Dunkirk and as such connected to SNCF metals at the point of docking and unloading. Therefore the Victoria to Dover distance had an add on of 30 plus miles but not strictly non-stop!
Yes I know this doesn’t answer the question asked in the first place but it’s worthy of note.

I am the OP of this thread and I always see these "non-compliant" snippets of additional information as a bonus which add value to the thread rather than detract from it.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Yes, nothing goes fast through Bromley South now. Yes, before London Bridge remodelling there was many a story of people not used to the calling pattern of trains from Charing Cross or Cannon Street who had involuntary trips to High Brooms when they got on the wrong trains.

That reminds me of travelling on a 12-car Charing Cross > Waterloo East > Tonbridge service in the 1980s when I was too tired (or too lazy) to walk over the bridge to Waterloo. When we pulled up at Waterloo East, there was no platform outside the door, so I had run like the clappers through a couple of carriages so I could alight onto the platform. Fortunately, the train wasn't crowded. The announcement warned about not stopping at London Bridge, but not about the then short platform at Waterloo East.