Longest ECS move?

[tbtc]

What is the longest regular Empty Coaching Stock move on UK railways?

For example, are there many of over an hour?

And is there any cost/ advantage to running a route in service vs ECS (for example, IIRC until recently bus companies only got a fuel rebate whilst running "in service) - are the track access charges lower for an ECS move (or staffing costs higher)?

 

[MCR247]

Maybe the summer NXEC HST ECS from Neville Hill to Piccadilly to form an XC Newquay service

 

[Mojo]

There are plenty of ECS from Central Rivers (Barton under Needwood) to Birmingham New Street, which takes around 40 mins.

ECS from Central Rivers to London Euston in the mornings (leaves around 04.00) as well and I can find another one from Tyseley to Nottingham at 05.04.

 

[me123]

XC trains operate from Edinburgh Craigentinny depot solely in Scotland (with the exception of one train stabling in Aberdeen), so trains operating from Glasgow Central or Dundee must run ECS in both directions at the start and end of each day. I believe there's 1 ECS in both directions for each location.

Similarly, Virgin only use Polmadie in Glasgow, so Voyagers starting the day out in Edinburgh must run ECS from Polmadie now. I think that's two returns a day.

I think the reason for Virgin doing this would be that they're already storing trains at Polmadie. I suppose it's cheaper to do that than base one or two trains at another depot when it's only an hour or so away. XC have more logistical reasons; there's nowhere to stable trains "proper" in Dundee, and at Glasgow, the outbound ECS is an HST and the inbound one is a Voyager.

thejunction also suggests some long ECS moves from Pendolinos. We have:

• Wolverhampton-Euston
• Manchester-Wembley/Euston
• Liverpool Lime Street-London Euston
• Oxley-Rugby

 

[91101]

Longest one that I can think of is 3A99 which moves the hotspare set from Neville Hill to Bounds Green late on a morning.

There used to be a move on a Sunday which was Bounds Green to Heaton ECS to stock balance for Monday morning, this doesnt happen now, as the move in effect takes place with the Fridays only service to Newcastle at 1930.

With most LSE toc's you find that there will be a number of ECS moves in the counter peak, for example, FCC will run ECS trains from Kings Cross back out to Hertford North in the morning peak, so that they can get another load of customers into London quicker rather than having to wait for the service to make all stops on the loop. This sort of thing usually sees them being ran as Class 3's rather than Class 5.

ECS moves are not cheaper per sae, but they are not subject to the same level of penalties for delays, but other than that, all costs are pretty much the same.

 

[charley_17/7]

Nottingham to Liverpool early morning empties, also a 2141-ish M-F Manchester - Nottingham return.

 

[tbtc]

ECS moves are not cheaper per sae, but they are not subject to the same level of penalties for delays, but other than that, all costs are pretty much the same.

That's a point I'd not considered, especially for late night moves "home" to the depot - which may be delayed by a late incoming service

 

[driver9000]

There is a class 180 ECS on a Sunday between Newton Heath & Blackpool North to swap the maintenance set over. Its timed for just over 1hr.

 

[MCR247]

5A12 Neville Hill 0420 - Hull 0625 (carried out by EC002 to form the hull exectutive, then highland cheftian)

3A99 Neville Hill 0835 - Kings Cross 1138 [EC001]

5H30 Hull 2030 - Neville hill 2220 [EC011]

 

[curly42]

Don't know what they do now but FGW used to run an ecs move from Swansea to Cheltenham for the first London service,and also on several occasions an empty set from Old Oak to Cheltenham.Both sets returned empty at the end of the day.
For the short period that Virgin ran (??) the Swindon line service,they would run two 158s empty from Birmingham to Gloucester to start the service.One of the sets would then become the standby for the day.At the close of service both sets returned to Birmingham ,empty of course.

 

[87015]

Used to be a Glasgow-Wembley empties, think it was Saturday nights but the diagrams aren't quite as fresh in my head as they were at the time! Wasn't there a HST empties NL-LA overnight aswell to position it for the SO Plymouth-Newquay morning turn?

 

[Bittern]

<snip>

Guess that answers my question about where the Inverness NXEC HST goes after it arrives from London.

 

[Aictos]

Well you have ECS's between Peterborough and Hornsey EMUD for one example of ECS's on the GN, you also have one which runs on from Letchworth to Hertford as a ECS coming into service there. Not forgetting the ECS's between Moorgate, Kings Cross, Hornsey EMUD and Hertford North.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

When I was on nights last week we had an empty HST running from Worcester to Swansea, also the empty stock for the northern belle or whatever it is last week ran from Crewe to Newport AD Jct. via coventry if that counts

 

[Turbostar]

When FGW send what's left of their unrefurb coaching stock to Kilmarnock from Laira & St Phillips Marsh, & return from Kilmarnock, isn't that technically classed as ECS? :-?

 

[me123]

Guess that answers my question about where the Inverness NXEC HST goes after it arrives from London.

IIRC, on arrival, the NXEC HST goes into the depot at Inverness for a clean, and then stables overnight in Inverness Station for the morning service back to King's Cross. I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't stable in the depot, I think it may be something to do with Scotrail not letting/not able to allow the train in there overnight.

Nevertheless, Inverness-Inverness TMD certainly is not the longest ECS move in the UK!

 

[Bittern]

I thought something like that happened. I got from your post that it went back to Edinburgh. o_o

 

[Philip Elliott]

thejunction also suggests some long ECS moves from Pendolinos. We have:

• Wolverhampton-Euston
• Manchester-Wembley/Euston
• Liverpool Lime Street-London Euston
• Oxley-Rugby

It changes by days run and periods but it is pretty regular to have Oxley - Euston, Birmingham - Wembley, Euston - Longsight, Manchester - Wembley, Crewe - Euston and for the 221s, Barton - Euston, Euston - Crewe CS, Crewe CS - Holyhead. Surely the award for the wackiest ECS has got to be when on Sundays in February / March we ran a 390 Polmadie - Edge Hill via the G&SW and the S&C. The set didn't any passenger work, just a stock balancing move

 

[me123]

I thought something like that happened. I got from your post that it went back to Edinburgh. o_o

Running back to Edinburgh would not be feasible in the time they've got to turn the train around. It's a 4 hour+ journey up a rather heavily used Highland Mainline and the train's in Inverness for not much longer than 9 hours in total.

NXEC stable at the "local depots" in Scotland, and have no absurd ECS workings on the whole. They "own" Clayhills in Aberdeen holding two NXEC HSTs every evening, they stable two or three 91s a night in Polmadie, Glasgow, and "own" Craigentinny for the trains starting from Edinburgh Waverley. They also have the Inverness movement outlined above.

 

[MCR247]

does to Derby - Neville Hill still rin, leaving at 2051, ex 1745 of STP