Longer Lumos

[TheBigD]

For me, the logical move is to hire in the spare 802 from Hull Trains and use that to augment the busiest pair of services on popular days (or provide cover for using all five 803s). No other extra rolling stock needed.

Hull Trains use 4 of their 5 sets on Fridays and Sundays. 3 out of 5 the other days.

 

[HullRailMan]

Hull Trains use 4 of their 5 sets on Fridays and Sundays. 3 out of 5 the other days.

Plus Saturdays and occasional other days when demand peaks. 10 car operations likely to increase in time too, so there isn’t a ‘spare’ unit to lease out.

 

[Hadders]

Not all Lumo workings need extending. The 05:45 from Kings Cross is very quiet this morning.

 

[AM9]

There is probably a stronger case for extending to 6 or 7 car (assuming transformer can cope with extra motor bogie if required) than doubling up units.

Don't the 8xxs have a 25kV bus? If so then it's only the pantograph and any in-line switchgear that sees a higher load.

 

[JonathanH]

Hull Trains use 4 of their 5 sets on Fridays and Sundays. 3 out of 5 the other days.

So the question then is whether Lumo could a) use it on the other days, b) somehow have interworking or c) simply make more money using it than Hull Trains.

 

[Halifaxlad]

For me, the logical move is to hire in the spare 802 from Hull Trains and use that to augment the busiest pair of services on popular days (or provide cover for using all five 803s). No other extra rolling stock needed.

That wouldn't be sensible considering internally both units vary, Lumo needs to remain consistent across its offer its not like any of service.

Besides its not just a people issue its a luggage issue!

 

[Energy]

Don't the 8xxs have a 25kV bus? If so then it's only the pantograph and any in-line switchgear that sees a higher load.

They do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That wouldn't be sensible considering internally both units vary, Lumo needs to remain consistent across its offer its not like any of service.

Lumo is a budget service. Like nobody cares if Megabus hires in a coach from a random coach company and sticks a Megabus label in the front window, nobody would care if Lumo had an "odd one out" unit in service. They'd care more if they couldn't travel or had to stand.

 

[tbtc]

I’m probably being hopelessly naive here but…

… imagine a world where First had a franchise with plenty of stock, the kind of surplus you’d get where you took on 31 five coach 125mph EMUs (60% of which would be compatible with Lumo’s 803s, since they were made by the same people) as well as fourteen rakes of five coach loco hauled trains, yet were able to retain all fifty one DMUs that they already had (so gaining over two hundred carriages and the only reduction being forty carriages of 350/4s that were subleased to them)?

A world where this huge increase in trains capable of running on electric mode had subsequently been scuppered by Network Rail not delivering the promised electrification through Hudders… ahem, I mean “through the busy core of the franchise”, so it’ll be years until they can operate the majority of their services purely in electric mode?

Even wilder, imagine if this franchise barely ran half of the services in its franchise commitments (and rarely used the “spare” DMUs to double up their Cleethor… erm, I mean “their one remaining diesel corridor”)?

Yes, doubled up Lumo services would be marginally more expensive for the operator than a ten coach train where one conductor/ trolley can access all carriages, but if Lumo services are as busy as people on here keep saying (and could cope with additional paths AND longer trains) then the cost of a second conductor/ trolley is surely a drop in the ocean?

You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one…

 

[Energy]

… imagine a world where First had a franchise with plenty of stock, the kind of surplus you’d get where you took on 31 five coach 125mph EMUs (60% of which would be compatible with Lumo’s 803s, since they were made by the same people) as well as fourteen rakes of five coach loco hauled trains, yet were able to retain all fifty one DMUs that they already had (so gaining over two hundred carriages and the only reduction being forty carriages of 350/4s that were subleased to them)?

Whats the availability of 802s? Lumo wouldn't be interested in 397s or mk5s.

The mk5s have some pretty low usage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whats the availability of 802s? Lumo wouldn't be interested in 397s or mk5s.

The mk5s have some pretty low usage.

TPE could presumably put Mk5s or 185s on services currently using 802s so as to release a couple to Lumo. If we were talking how to best use TPE's fleet, though, I'd also give them Barrow and Windermere back to run with 802s, freeing up 195s to use on Northern local services where they bring most benefit.

 

[Halifaxlad]

They'd care more if they couldn't travel or had to stand.

Precisely,

What do you think going to happen when customers find there isn't enough room for their luggage ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Precisely,

What do you think going to happen when customers find there isn't enough room for their luggage ?

It'll get piled in the doorway like it usually does. Nothing new, I remember as a teenager being on a 156 to Windermere with a doorway piled to head height with bags, we had to go round the outside to get it all out.

 

[DanNCL]

TPE 802s to Lumo would be a non starter. It was only doable in 2021 for crew training as the only booked work for them with TPE was 1TPH across the Pennines. In addition to that work they now also have booked work on the WCML, and if I recall correctly the Edinburgh - Newcastle shuttle has an extra diagram now than it did then too. There are also two units long term out of action - one following the derailment at Heaton earlier in the year and one for battery trials.

To free up any 802s for Lumo, at least one diagram (two if there aren't any self contained at one depot) on the Liverpool - Newcastle route would need to go to 185 operation. 185s cannot keep to time between York and Newcastle. Not so much of an issue heading north where there's a reasonable turnaround time at Newcastle and nothing else running immediately behind, but it's an issue heading south as if it shows up more than a minute or two late at Leeds it misses its path across the Pennines as it would be stuck behind the Brighouse stopper. Mark 5s in addition to the speed restriction the 185s have are also not signed by Newcastle crews - shouldnt be impossible to find a crew that signs both the traction and route as York signs them both, but it's more hassle than it's worth which is why it hasn't happened, I also don't think SDO for Chester-le-Street is set up on the Mark 5s.