Long term strategy for capacity in the west midlands?

[Old Hill Bank]

London Midland say that three extra class 323 units will cover the Redditch Branch enhancement and Bromsgrove extensions with new class 350s to cover the current diagrams they work, Redditch yes but Bromsgrove no! Then what happens when the Chase Line gets electrified in 2017, no plan!
Our own line has seen the class 172s introduced and they are good trains but insufficient were procured to run our service and already being supplemented by other less appropriate units! What will happen when LM are required to provide trains for the Kenilworth service. Then there is the new stations on the Coventry- Nuneaton line and the increased demand that the additional stops may create. No one wants to buy anymore diesel units. Any views?

 

[The Planner]

Why won't they cover the Bromsgroves? Kenilworth will just be a 153 and I really can't see the two new stations on the Cov Nuneaton line being massive draws.

 

[tbtc]

what happens when the Chase Line gets electrified in 2017, no plan!

There are going to be plenty of lines electrified between now and 2017 that we don't know the stock for - not just in the West Midlands.

The problem with the railway is that we've one "arm" deciding on the infrastructure improvements, one "arm" delivering them, another "arm" deciding on what stock to allocate (or are we meant to believe that its all decided by the competitive market?)...

There won't be enough EMUs directly displaced by Thameslink & Crossrail to fill all of the "gaps" in fleet due to the CP5 wiring, and the 387s aren't going to fill it all either (is there still an option on a follow on order? I'll admit to having got confused by the 116+140 numbers), so I think we all know that there'll be some new orders for "provincial" EMUs to cover things like Transpennine - panic ye not.

 

[Bald Rick]

(is there still an option on a follow on order? I'll admit to having got confused by the 116+140 numbers),

Yes there is still an option to be exercised. Another 100 vehicles IIRC (and judging by the website of a fellow forumista).

BUT I think the option can only be exercised by Southern (or its successor) and requires Secretary of State approval.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Why won't they cover the Bromsgroves? Kenilworth will just be a 153 and I really can't see the two new stations on the Cov Nuneaton line being massive draws.

Currently four services turn back at Longbridge and two continue to Redditch, it takes ten minutes to turn back at Longbridge and thirty five to get back from Redditch. It is going to take about the same to and from Bromsgrove. All are planned to run through when the projects are completed. As the Cross City line runs with a mix of 3 and 6 car formations can you tell me how three extra units will cover this without shortening some services?

Sorry forgot to add in the pathing time that will be put in on the dynamic loop at Alvechurch.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes there is still an option to be exercised. Another 100 vehicles IIRC (and judging by the website of a fellow forumista).

BUT I think the option can only be exercised by Southern (or its successor) and requires Secretary of State approval.

There are options - southern could novate the contract or they act as purchasing agent on behalf on A N Other TOC

 

[318259]

These station names bring back memories of the excellent "Birmingham Cross City South" route on BVE

It's the same situation in Scotland where electrification is concerned. Pretty much everything north of Glasgow is diesel just now, and a lot of it is being electrified before 2020. I'm also wondering where those trains are coming from. I wouldn't be surprised if Transport Scotland ordered 70 or so new class 380s.

 

[the sniper]

I've always been led to believe that the 350s will be used on Walsall - Wolverhampton, as they are partly at the moment, displacing the 323s on the route to work Bromsgrove/Cross City, though that may just be speculation.

I've always imagined that eventually London Midland/the West Mids TOC would get Northern's 323s, with Northern getting a larger standard fleet of EMUs to cover its current and future electric routes. By the sounds of it though the Northern 323s would need a good overhaul before joining the LM/WM fleet, as I've heard numerous people say their ones aren't in very good condition compared to LMs.

 

[The Planner]

Sorry forgot to add in the pathing time that will be put in on the dynamic loop at Alvechurch.

You will have to elaborate on that one, the loop was designed so they pass without that being needed.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I've always been led to believe that the 350s will be used on Walsall - Wolverhampton, as they are partly at the moment, displacing the 323s on the route to work Bromsgrove/Cross City, though that may just be speculation.

That is fact, see my opening post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You will have to elaborate on that one, the loop was designed so they pass without that being needed.

Sorry if my terminology is in error on this one but I would have thought some padding would be put in to cover performance risk.

 

[The Planner]

Cross City is too intensive for that, you might get some public differential at Redditch if LM decide they want it but there won't be anything extra along the way in the WTT.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Just a sideline but on the same routes, have a look at the historic timetables on our website.
Our Webmaster has put a load more historical timetables on as well as the most informative "Timeline" of our route. Use the link and click on the tabs. http://www.stourbridgelineusergroup.info/

 

[Phlip]

I've always imagined that eventually London Midland/the West Mids TOC would get Northern's 323s, with Northern getting a larger standard fleet of EMUs to cover its current and future electric routes. By the sounds of it though the Northern 323s would need a good overhaul before joining the LM/WM fleet, as I've heard numerous people say their ones aren't in very good condition compared to LMs.

Northern's 323s are more reliable according to this year's MR fleet reliability review:

Northern Rail Class 323:
16998 MTIN MAA Period 7 2013-14
35655 MTIN Period 7 2013-14

London Midland Class 323:
12490 MTIN MAA Period 7 2013-14
15982 MTIN Period 7 2013-14