Long Term Stored Sets

[TheEngineer]

I noticed yesterday when I passed the Jubilee line depot outside Stratford yesterday a number of individual carriages - some were covered in graffiti.
Does anyone know which these are and also being fairly new to tube spotting are there any long term stored sets stored at depots around the network.

I am aware of 3260 and 3532 from the Bakerloo line... I use Intertube often to see what's out and about, but for example it doesn't show the Central line 'even' numbered centre cars. I am aware of 3 Central sets being refurbished but not sure of the 12 2 car sets this covers.

Any help from those in the know would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[notverydeep]

LU doesn't really have a TOPS like stored status, units are either available for traffic or maintenance or 'stopped'. There is a system which records the date when a particular unit was stopped and there are as you suspect some units that have been stopped for a long period, but this definitely doesn't mean that they are permanently out of traffic and most generally return to use after the periodic 'programmed lift' overhauls. LU doesn't maintain the Northern line fleet, that is done by Alsthom, so the system doesn't show the status of Northern line units.

On the Jubilee 96126 has been stopped since 2020 and 96049 since 2021. 96080 was stopped in 2022 and 96033/036/056/088/091 were all stopped in 2023. These will all be among the last trains in the ongoing overhaul series and so will probably remain out of traffic until sometime in 2025. Aside from 96121 which has been stopped since January and another two units from June, all other stopped units have only been since dates in August.

On the Central line 91341 has been out of traffic since 2016 and 91337 since 2018. There are other units stopped for more than a year on the Central and some on other lines...

If you are interested in a specific unit on other lines feel free to post to the London Underground stock requests thread...

 

[starlight73]

To answer your question about the central line - @xtmw said that CLIP train no. 3* is:

001,054,076&201 if I'm not mistaken

(Each number has the prefix 91xxx I think?)

1992 stock Refurbishment?

ahhh so it changed again then. Way back when I was in the loop HOPL was broken off from CLIP so it looks like it’s happened again again… CLIP is exceedingly delayed for it to be intergrated and then broken out from a Programme Lift twice!!!

www.railforums.co.uk

*this is the first completed refurbished central line train and as far as I know the only one that has been in passenger service

no idea about the other numbers but the people on the linked thread can probably answer that

 

[TheEngineer]

LU doesn't really have a TOPS like stored status, units are either available for traffic or maintenance or 'stopped'. There is a system which records the date when a particular unit was stopped and there are as you suspect some units that have been stopped for a long period, but this definitely doesn't mean that they are permanently out of traffic and most generally return to use after the periodic 'programmed lift' overhauls. LU doesn't maintain the Northern line fleet, that is done by Alsthom, so the system doesn't show the status of Northern line units.

On the Jubilee 96126 has been stopped since 2020 and 96049 since 2021. 96080 was stopped in 2022 and 96033/036/056/088/091 were all stopped in 2023. These will all be among the last trains in the ongoing overhaul series and so will probably remain out of traffic until sometime in 2025. Aside from 96121 which has been stopped since January and another two units from June, all other stopped units have only been since dates in August.

On the Central line 91341 has been out of traffic since 2016 and 91337 since 2018. There are other units stopped for more than a year on the Central and some on other lines...

If you are interested in a specific unit on other lines feel free to post to the London Underground stock requests thread...

Many thanks for that reply, it's really helpful. I have my lists of what I require on certain lines and I check on intertube and all those stopped I require for sight on the jubilee line plus a few other sets that have been out recently. I haven't really started on the northern line yet.. just getting them a bit ad hoc. Once again many thanks

 

[xtmw]

To answer your question about the central line - @xtmw said that CLIP train no. 3* is:



(Each number has the prefix 91xxx I think?)

1992 stock Refurbishment?

ahhh so it changed again then. Way back when I was in the loop HOPL was broken off from CLIP so it looks like it’s happened again again… CLIP is exceedingly delayed for it to be intergrated and then broken out from a Programme Lift twice!!!

www.railforums.co.uk

*this is the first completed refurbished central line train and as far as I know the only one that has been in passenger service

no idea about the other numbers but the people on the linked thread can probably answer that

Yes this is the only CLIP train in passenger service, however the next train is expected to enter service in December

 

[TheEngineer]

To answer your question about the central line - @xtmw said that CLIP train no. 3* is:



(Each number has the prefix 91xxx I think?)

1992 stock Refurbishment?

ahhh so it changed again then. Way back when I was in the loop HOPL was broken off from CLIP so it looks like it’s happened again again… CLIP is exceedingly delayed for it to be intergrated and then broken out from a Programme Lift twice!!!

www.railforums.co.uk

*this is the first completed refurbished central line train and as far as I know the only one that has been in passenger service

no idea about the other numbers but the people on the linked thread can probably answer that

Many thanks... the Central line was the first one I started on whilst at Stratford one afternoon
I believe the clip programme has:
01 093 109 111 155 201 263 331 012 026 054 176 206 222 446
Stored ones I believe are 75 101 337 341 150
My missing ones are then just 319 56 184
Thanks again

 

[notverydeep]

Many thanks... the Central line was the first one I started on whilst at Stratford one afternoon
I believe the clip programme has:
01 093 109 111 155 201 263 331 012 026 054 176 206 222 446
Stored ones I believe are 75 101 337 341 150
My missing ones are then just 319 56 184
Thanks again

In addition to those listed above, CLIP has 91043. 91079, 91123 and 91347 plus 93100, 93142, 93220, 93232 and 93236 are also shown as stopped for CLIP. CLIP train 3 (the train that has worked in passenger service is 91001 93054 93176 and 91201) is not stopped and is available for tests or service.

93150 (which has the same modification as 91341) was stopped in 2019, 91075, 91101 and 91319 have been stopped since late 2022, 93056 and 93184 since mid 2023. 17 other 2 car units have been stopped since dates in 2023, but are not listed as being in CLIP.

 

[TheEngineer]

In addition to those listed above, CLIP has 91043. 91079, 91123 and 91347 plus 93100, 93142, 93220, 93232 and 93236 are also shown as stopped for CLIP. CLIP train 3 (the train that has worked in passenger service is 91001 93054 93176 and 91201) is not stopped and is available for tests or service.

93150 (which has the same modification as 91341) was stopped in 2019, 91075, 91101 and 91319 have been stopped since late 2022, 93056 and 93184 since mid 2023. 17 other 2 car units have been stopped since dates in 2023, but are not listed as being in CLIP.

Many thanks for that information, it's much appreciated. Looks like once the CLIP sets start entering regular service I can start looking at the Central line again.

 

[boiledbeans2]

93150 (which has the same modification as 91341) was stopped in 2019

What modification do the 2 trains above have?

 

[notverydeep]

What modification do the 2 trains above have?

They have 'sealed relays' which involves non-standard components and wiring, which in turn means specific maintenance processes and documentation. I am sorry, I don't know the technical details though...

 

[Russel]

On the Central line 91341 has been out of traffic since 2016 and 91337 since 2018.

Given the dire lack of units available for the Central line, how can TFL justify having trains out of service for 8 and 6 years?

What is wrong with 91341 and 91377?

 

[notverydeep]

Given the dire lack of units available for the Central line, how can TFL justify having trains out of service for 8 and 6 years?

What is wrong with 91341 and 91377?

Most large fleets of older types will have obsolete components that have long lead times or supply difficulties. This leads to units being parked up to wait for these new components to be supplied or even reverse engineered. Other failures of hard to obtain components will then lead to good components being removed from the parked units and re-used to return others to service. If this continues, it can become a major project to locate or procure all of the missing components just for one vehicle and with others out of service, returning the long stored examples to service isn't a priority.

In 2019/20 there was a project to return 91341 to use to support the planned 4 car operation between Hainault and Woodford, but the pandemic meant this was not completed. Thus it will probably be left to the CLIP project to find all of the missing bits and return these to service towards the end of the programme, for the moment the maintainers will [sensibly] focus on other stopped units that can be returned to operation more readily...

 

[En]

Most large fleets of older types will have obsolete components that have long lead times or supply difficulties. This leads to units being parked up to wait for these new components to be supplied or even reverse engineered. Other failures of hard to obtain components will then lead to good components being removed from the parked units and re-used to return others to service. If this continues, it can become a major project to locate or procure all of the missing components just for one vehicle and with others out of service, returning the long stored examples to service isn't a priority.

In 2019/20 there was a project to return 91341 to use to support the planned 4 car operation between Hainault and Woodford, but the pandemic meant this was not completed. Thus it will probably be left to the CLIP project to find all of the missing bits and return these to service towards the end of the programme, for the moment the maintainers will [sensibly] focus on other stopped units that can be returned to operation more readily...

Exactly, the concept of the 'Christmas tree' unit , being robbed of parts other than the ones which originally stopped it as it's most timely way to get another unit back to work ( see also the concept of 'reduce to produce' that has been used in various settings )

 

[xtmw]

Also in similarity, the [DC] motors from the CLIP trains were used to provide 'good' motors so they can get more trains in service

However I heard some of them were knackered so that didn't end well

 

[Peter Mugridge]

(Each number has the prefix 91xxx I think?)

Not quite; the only common number to every Central Line unit is 92xxx.

Those four units are:

91001 + 92001
92054 + 93054
92076 + 93076
91201 + 92201

This is why I always log them with their 92xxx number - it's less confusing - even though that does annoy the purists who follow the Underground's own system of the lower numbered carriage in each unit...