Long Shot for West London?

[leytongabriel]

There were a lot of complaints when SWR cut trains on the Waterloo - Dorking service
Is there any potential for putting these back but going up the West London line and turning them back
as soon as poss,Watford Junction perhaps, to complement the Southern service?

 

[Starmill]

The reason they were withdrawn was to save drivers and guards first and foremost wasn't it. It wasn't because they were unable to be accommodated at London Waterloo.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

None whatsoever I'm afraid - apart from anything else, I don't think there's any way of accessing the relevant lines from each other at Clapham Junction without creating a whole mass of conflicts?

Much of the demand would be to and from Waterloo as well.

 

[swt_passenger]

There were a lot of complaints when SWR cut trains on the Waterloo - Dorking service
Is there any potential for putting these back but going up the West London line and turning them back
as soon as poss,Watford Junction perhaps, to complement the Southern service?

Not possible, there‘s no route to get across from the SW main lines to the Windsor side and thence to the WLL at Clapham Junction.

 

[Starmill]

Not possible, there‘s no route to get across from the SW main lines to the Windsor side and thence to the WLL at Clapham Junction.

Indeed. I think there's a connection from the line via Latchmere Junction directly into platforms 1 and 2, obviously, and also 3 and 4. They are also connected to platforms 16 and 17 via the diveunder. I'm unsure if there are even crossovers in place to reach the other Main or Central platforms though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2022 ==

There were a lot of complaints when SWR cut trains on the Waterloo - Dorking service
Is there any potential for putting these back but going up the West London line and turning them back
as soon as poss,Watford Junction perhaps, to complement the Southern service?

The thing that would work, and should probably have been on the table before the change was made, would be an extra service from Epsom to Dorking to connect at Epsom with the London Waterloo - Guildford services. However this wouldn't get around the issue with the cost of the extra crew and unit. It may also be very difficult to find the platform capacity at Epsom. I'm fairly sure that trains can turn back at Leatherhead too, but there's no siding to reverse in, so the train would be in the way I think?

 

[ivorytoast28]

The thing that would work, and should probably have been on the table before the change was made, would be an extra service from Epsom to Dorking to connect at Epsom with the London Waterloo - Guildford services. However this wouldn't get around the issue with the cost of the extra crew and unit. It may also be very difficult to find the platform capacity at Epsom. I'm fairly sure that trains can turn back at Leatherhead too, but there's no siding to reverse in, so the train would be in the way I think?

Given that for everywhere other than bookham the Guildford New line it is quicker to go via cobham I have wondered whether it would make sense for both the Epsom trains to go to Dorking giving it its 2tph to Waterloo again and using the same number of slots and then extended the Epsom-London Bridge stopper to Guildford so bookham is still served as well as giving a major city like Guildford a service to much of South London. of course this requires Southern to pick up the slack from SWR but less of an issue under a future GBR system

 

[NSE]

SWR also have no trains capable of dual voltage which would also make it a non starter.

Yes yes, I know 450s can have pans added but it wouldn’t happen for this.

 

[Starmill]

SWR also have no trains capable of dual voltage which would also make it a non starter.

Yes yes, I know 450s can have pans added but it wouldn’t happen for this.

They could just go to Shepherds Bush to be fair. But that doesn't solve the main problem that they can't get to Latchmere Junction.

 

[NSE]

They could just go to Shepherds Bush to be fair. But that doesn't solve the main problem that they can't get to Latchmere Junction.

True. But I’m going to work on the assumption that although it’s possible to turn at train at the Bush, I don’t think you’d want it to happen on a regular basis. Too much scope for delays and subsequent line blocking.

 

[dctraindriver]

Not possible, there‘s no route to get across from the SW main lines to the Windsor side and thence to the WLL at Clapham Junction.

You can via East Putney but it wouldn’t be viable.

 

[swt_passenger]

You can via East Putney but it wouldn’t be viable.

Yes, it would be fairly conflicting in the down direction.

 

[30907]

Yes, it would be fairly conflicting in the down direction.

Easy solution: the return route is via Clapham Jn P17, Streatham Jn, Wimbledon P9 and onto the Down Main Slow.
Gets you two obscure routes for the price of one
I agree the Epsom area has done badly in the present round of cuts but the resources could be better used than pottering up to Willesden Jn.

 

[PGAT]

There were a lot of complaints when SWR cut trains on the Waterloo - Dorking service
Is there any potential for putting these back but going up the West London line and turning them back
as soon as poss,Watford Junction perhaps, to complement the Southern service?

I believe this is impossible since there aren't any links between the SWML and Falcon Junction (the branch to the WLL) unless you go the long way via Sutton and Balham

 

[WizCastro197]

Why would a Dorking train be routed to Watford in the First Place. Is there even demand? Or Is this thread highly theoretical?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==

I believe this is impossible since there aren't any links between the SWML and Falcon Junction (the branch to the WLL) unless you go the long way via Sutton and Balham

Gives Balham and Sutton a new services though towards Clapham and Watford.

I am sure long way doesn't seem to bad, come onto line at Wimbledon exit at Streatham and onto Clapham as @30907 said. Could run fast if need be.

 

[PGAT]

Why would a Dorking train be routed to Watford in the First Place. Is there even demand? Or Is this thread highly theoretical?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==


Gives Balham and Sutton a new services though towards Clapham and Watford.

I am sure long way doesn't seem to bad, come onto line at Wimbledon exit at Streatham and onto Clapham as @30907 said. Could run fast if need be.

Not enough demand, passes through 3 bottlenecks, and there aren’t enough dual-voltage in anyone’s fleet (Southern or SWR) for it to work

 

[Big Jumby 74]

You can via East Putney but it wouldn’t be viable.

Route wise exactly so, but taking all other issues in to account the conflicts alone at Point Pleasant Junction and Wimbledon p5/Wimbledon West Jn, would kill any such initiative from the off. And as someone who went round in circles trying to find extra paths to/from Wimbledon Park via Wimbledon for the original 10 car plan, I have a fair understanding of such things!

 

[dctraindriver]

Route wise exactly so, but taking all other issues in to account the conflicts alone at Point Pleasant Junction and Wimbledon p5/Wimbledon West Jn, would kill any such initiative from the off. And as someone who went round in circles trying to find extra paths to/from Wimbledon Park via Wimbledon for the original 10 car plan, I have a fair understanding of such things!

Hence why I said it wouldn’t be viable.