"Long-Faring"?

[Spurs]

Hiya,

Having just moved I'm going to be travelling fairly often between Cambridge and White Hart Lane with a 16-25 railcard. I've had a look at the fares, and it's showing that a super off-peak day return will cost £13.15. However, if I ask for a super off-peak day return from Cambridge to any station between Bethnal Green and Stoke Newington via White Hart Lane, the cost is only £10.25, a £2.90 saving. Cambridge to Liverpool Street is also available at £10.85. Is this just one of the irregularities of the rail system where it costs less to travel further?

More importantly: is it legal to buy a return from Cambridge to Bethnal Green, but instead go to White Hart Lane, if I am on board a train that stops at Bethnal Green? There are no barriers at White Hart Lane, and I have never ever seen a revenue block there but I'm guessing that could change when the franchise changes to London Overground from this summer so I'd rather be safe than sorry in case they start one.

Finally, I may sometimes instead be travelling back to Liverpool Street to visit family, but going to White Hart Lane first. If I hold a Cambridge-Liverpool Street super-off-peak single, off-peak return or advance ticket, is it acceptable to have a break of journey at White Hart Lane, or must two separate tickets/a ticket for the first leg and an Oyster Card for the second be held?

Apologies for all the questions, not used to any travel outside of the simple London oyster zone! If anyone knows a cheaper way to do this I'd obviously appreciate it too

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In most circumstances, then it is quite permitted to travel for a shorter distance than the full journey between the named stations.
This is because, quite simply, you buy a ticket which "permits" you to take a specificd journey. You are not obliged to take up all, or any, of that "permission".

A well-known exception arises with the popular low-price 'Advance' tickets, which are for a very specific journey, between the two stations, and at a specified time. I assume that this is not something that you are considering.

One technicallity that can trip up passengers who take a shorter journey than the full 'permission' is that the intermediate station at which they want to stop early might not be on the same route as the permitted journey. This is always something to bear in mind when taking an alternative journey to the journey specified on the ticket.

 

[Spurs]

In most circumstances, then it is quite permitted to travel for a shorter distance than the full journey between the named stations.
This is because, quite simply, you buy a ticket which "permits" you to take a specificd journey. You are not obliged to take up all, or any, of that "permission".

A well-known exception arises with the popular low-price 'Advance' tickets, which are for a very specific journey, between the two stations, and at a specified time. I assume that this is not something that you are considering.

One technicallity that can trip up passengers who take a shorter journey than the full 'permission' is that the intermediate station at which they want to stop early might not be on the same route as the permitted journey. This is always something to bear in mind when taking an alternative journey to the journey specified on the ticket.

Bethnal Green is on the same route in conventional terms at least: both journeys involving getting a train from Cambridge to Cheshunt, and then changing to one going to Liverpool Street. So as long as I get an open or off-peak rather than advance ticket, the journey's permitted? Thanks a lot, should save a fair wad of cash over the course of the year!

 

[yorkie]

Hiya,

Having just moved I'm going to be travelling fairly often between Cambridge and White Hart Lane with a 16-25 railcard. I've had a look at the fares, and it's showing that a super off-peak day return will cost £13.15. However, if I ask for a super off-peak day return from Cambridge to any station between Bethnal Green and Stoke Newington via White Hart Lane, the cost is only £10.25, a £2.90 saving. Cambridge to Liverpool Street is also available at £10.85. Is this just one of the irregularities of the rail system where it costs less to travel further?

Yes, it can be cheaper to pay to go further.

More importantly: is it legal to buy a return from Cambridge to Bethnal Green, but instead go to White Hart Lane, if I am on board a train that stops at Bethnal Green? There are no barriers at White Hart Lane, and I have never ever seen a revenue block there but I'm guessing that could change when the franchise changes to London Overground from this summer so I'd rather be safe than sorry in case they start one.

The train does not need to be a train that calls at Bethnal Green, however you need to be on a permitted route between Cambridge and Bethal Green.

The obvious route to Bethnal Green is via Northumberland Park, and that station may be more convenient. Check the times shortly before travel; there may be a direct train.

However White Hart Lane is still on a permitted route, so that's absolutely valid too.

Finally, I may sometimes instead be travelling back to Liverpool Street to visit family, but going to White Hart Lane first. If I hold a Cambridge-Liverpool Street super-off-peak single, off-peak return or advance ticket, is it acceptable to have a break of journey at White Hart Lane, or must two separate tickets/a ticket for the first leg and an Oyster Card for the second be held?

Yes, that's valid, with the exception of an Advance ticket, which is valid on the booked train only and prohibits break of journey.

Do you have a Spurs season ticket?

 

[Spurs]

Yes, it can be cheaper to pay to go further.

The train does not need to be a train that calls at Bethnal Green, however you need to be on a permitted route between Cambridge and Bethal Green.

The obvious route to Bethnal Green is via Northumberland Park, and that station is likely to be more convenient for you anyway.

However White Hart Lane is still on a permitted route, so that's absolutely valid too.

Yes, that's valid, with the exception of an Advance ticket, which is valid on the booked train only and prohibits break of journey.

Do you have a Spurs season ticket?

Thanks And ah okay, I'll look into that, didn't realise Northumberland Park was better for travel to Cambridge. I'll just make sure to always avoid advanced tickets! Yeah I do - not sure if I'll keep it what with me moving and the talk of us migrating to Milton Keynes for a season but I'll see how it goes.

 

[telstarbox]

I think Yorkie mentioned that because Abellio Greater Anglia do a special deal for Spurs ST holders.

If you do need to get to MK the X5 coach r runs regularly from Cambridge.

 

[Spurs]

I think Yorkie mentioned that because Abellio Greater Anglia do a special deal for Spurs ST holders.

If you do need to get to MK the X5 coach r runs regularly from Cambridge.

Just looked at it now but unfortunately doesn't seem to be a very good deal. There's no railcard discount, and the quote is £453 per season. Even if we end up playing 30 home games (which is a generous estimate) and I don't miss any, it works out to £15.10 a match which is even more than the White Hart Lane fare and doesn't offer the flexibility of getting tickets to Liverpool Street instead when the need arises without topping it up with an Oyster fare, or the choice of going to Northumberland Park or White Hart Lane each game. I'll have to check for the possibility that I might on occasion have to pay a peak fare for midweek games, but it still seems like this season ticket will actually lose money for anyone with a railcard unless there's something I've missed.

EDIT: According to NRE midweek is just off-peak rather than super off-peak, I can still get tickets at £16 for a return which is only 90p more than the pro-rata season ticket price. Looking at it, the Season Ticket is a pretty unspectacular discount on the full adult fare, but nowhere near as good as a railcard if you buy tickets to Bethnal Green instead. Thanks anyway though Assume there's no way to use a railcard for a third off this season ticket? It becomes worth it if it's bought down to £302.

 

[bb21]

Not all Super Off-Peak fares are valid on all days.

The £13.15 fare is priced by Greater Anglia, and is valid on all days, subject to peak time restrictions.
The £10.25 fare is priced by Thameslink, and is only valid at the weekend.

Same name, but actually very different products and terms, forced to have the same name since "simplification".

 

[yorkie]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46442.aspx

National Rail speak:

"The new fare names describe when you can buy or use your ticket, making it easier for you to decide what ticket suits your journey. For example if you buy an Anytime fare, you can use it to travel any time during the day."

English translation:

"The new fare names do not describe when you can use a ticket, so it's difficult to decide what ticket suits your journey. For example if you buy a Super Off Peak fare, you may be restricted by time, or you may be restricted to travelling at weekends, depending on who prices the fare"

National Rail speak:

"with fewer names you can quickly work out what ticket you need to make your journey."

English translation:

"with fewer names, ie different products now being called the same thing, it is time consuming to work out what ticket you need to make your journey."

National Rail speak:

"Ticket terms and conditions are now the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand."

English translation:

"Ticket terms and conditions are NOT the same across all train companies nationwide, so you have no idea where you stand."

They say what they want, they do what they want.

There is no ombudsman, there is no truly independent passenger watchdog with any real powers, there is no effective Regulator doing any actual regulating of this sort of thing.

No-one can stop them.

 

[Spurs]

Not all Super Off-Peak fares are valid on all days.

The £13.15 fare is priced by Greater Anglia, and is valid on all days, subject to peak time restrictions.
The £10.25 fare is priced by Thameslink, and is only valid at the weekend.

Same name, but actually very different products and terms, forced to have the same name since "simplification".

Okay, and for some reason even when I tell the National Rail journey planner I'm travelling to White Hart Lane at the weekend it offers me the £13.15 fare? :roll:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46442.aspx

National Rail speaknglish translation:

National Rail speaknglish translation:

National Rail speaknglish translation:

They say what they want, they do what they want.

There is no ombudsman, there is no truly independent passenger watchdog with any real powers, there is no effective Regulator doing any actual regulating of this sort of thing.

No-one can stop them.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in confusing passengers so they buy more expensive tickets, and have to pay fines if they get the wrong one...

 

[Oswyntail]

This may be blindingly obvious, and apologies to Spurs if it is, but it is worth pointing out that an "Advance" ticket has a special, discounted fare and is applicable only to the specified train. This is different from a ticket bought in advance. So you can buy your normal ticket on Tuesday for travel on Saturday without having to commit yourself to a particular train.

 

[bb21]

Okay, and for some reason even when I tell the National Rail journey planner I'm travelling to White Hart Lane at the weekend it offers me the £13.15 fare? :roll:

That's correct. £13.15 is the cheapest fare between White Hart Lane and Cambridge.

No booking engine will offer you fares from another station. You will need to do your own research.

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in confusing passengers so they buy more expensive tickets, and have to pay fines if they get the wrong one...

I think their intentions were good, but it was poorly implemented.

Not everything became worse though. Advance fares which tie you to a specific train had their terms harmonised, and that is very much to the benefit of the travelling public.