Long distance services - improvements?

[AlterEgo]

Hi all - just a thought

What could train companies do to improve their services with the resources they have? Are there any innovations you'd like to see? What can we learn from the Continent?

I'm mainly talking about things that could realistically be done, almost overnight!

Any ideas?

(please no nonsense like bringing back 87s and Mk3s...!)

 

[Popper]

make interactive maps like First Traspennine express:

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/train-destinations/interactive-map.htm

informal and customer friendly.

 

[WatcherZero]

More retail at stations to provide an income to maintain them better and improve the passenger environment could be done almost overnight. A lot of our oldest stations have office/hotel buildings which are empty too.

As to the services themselves I dont think there are any quick fixes as any increase in capacity such as length or frequency often requires costly infrastructure improvements. Targetting overnight maintenence windows through faster/smaller or more intensive working and trying to provide the prophesised 24 hour railway may be one way.

 

[yorksrob]

87's and Mk 3's not withstanding

I think one improvement that could be made relatively easily would be the installation of flip down seats in vestibules of the type the Mk 4's used to have. Whilst I know this might reduce access a little through some of these areas, if the train has a tendancy to get busy, people are going to end up in them anyway so they might as well be relatively comfortable. It would also allow these trains to deal more easily with short hops around the City's.

 

[me123]

^On that point, how about some tip-up seats in the Cafe Bar? Extremely useful if it's busy, just as useful on quieter trains where there's a queue at the buffet.

 

[amcluesent]

I'd like to see a trolley in FC franchised to Waitrose so I can buy essentials on KGX-PBO. Gives me something to do while everyone else travelling for 60+ mins is getting their free meal!

 

[WestCoast]

I'd like to see a national print-at-home e-ticket scheme for all TOCs on all routes for all tickets - rather like they have at DB. It would be secured against a personal credit card/railcard/passport - it works well and saves time and effort!

I'd also like to see improved catering - with all 'intercity' routes having a bar cafe/shop, no unreliable trolleys. As an interim measure, have a permanent trolley stationed in an area of the train. Even better, would be on-train catering operated by retailers such as M&S Simply Food or Tesco Express.

 

[swt_passenger]

Even better, would be on-train catering operated by retailers such as M&S Simply Food...

M&S Simply Food (at stations) are franchises run by Select Service Partnership (SSP), who as you are probably aware do nearly all the station catering already. SSP also own Rail Gourmet, who provide a number of TOCs with on board catering already - sometimes dressed as RG, sometimes in TOC uniforms.

So having M&S on a train wouldn't necessarily change anything...

 

[me123]

Bring their sandwiches on board, though... that would be an improvement! I'm not really sure about having a supermarket on board, though. Selling things to eat on the train is fine, but things like milk, bread and butter probably won't work as well.

For future TOCs, there should be a minimum standard applied. IMO, this should include a buffet/shop service offering at least some hot food (even if it's just toasted sandwiches and paninis), wifi throughout the train (which should include at least some free-to-use sites, such as BBC news and national rail enquires), a standard First Class provision for complimentary things, wider availability of Advance tickets (perhaps releasing them at a later date; some trains are sold out 2 months before they depart!)... This is a more long-term aspiration, but very possible.

 

[WestCoast]

M&S Simply Food (at stations) are franchises run by Select Service Partnership (SSP), who as you are probably aware do nearly all the station catering already. SSP also own Rail Gourmet, who provide a number of TOCs with on board catering already - sometimes dressed as RG, sometimes in TOC uniforms.

So having M&S on a train wouldn't necessarily change anything...

Indeed, I realise they are franchised operators. By using the M&S brand and range I am sure SSP gain many more sales than they would have done by branding as "Rail Stop" or something like that.

Equally, it could be an idea to brand an onboard buffet (I am thinking Virgin's 'shop' concept would be most suited to this) as a retailer with their product range, it's a risk but people may think "Oh I'll just to pop to M&S in coach C or wherever". It's a concept present on ferries.

Another option would be a cafe (some retailer like EAT or Costa Coffee). These are fairly high-priced offerings but probably not too far ahead of current prices for onboard catering!

Selling things to eat on the train is fine, but things like milk, bread and butter probably won't work as well.

I wouldn't include that type of range!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Failing all this I'd put a vending machine on trains (like they do on the continent). You can get a decent coffee and a bite to eat from the "service point" on DB's Regional-Express services.

 

[moonrakerz]

I think one improvement that could be made relatively easily would be the installation of flip down seats in vestibules

My local FGW 158s have a few of these. It is surprising how well used they are, I think a lot of people think it is too much trouble (to them and others) to go down the train to find a seat, especially if they are hauling a bag/case. It is easier to flip the seat down and stay where they are ! I've done it myself................

 

[me123]

^ If we put vending machines on trains, I guarantee you that the coffee would not be decent, and that every cup of tea would taste like coffee! I actually like the idea of vending machines on trains. I'd also like to see water fountains in every other coach, where you can get complimentary drinking water, but I think that's a bit of a fantasy!

 

[WestCoast]

^ If we put vending machines on trains, I guarantee you that the coffee would not be decent, and that every cup of tea would taste like coffee! I actually like the idea of vending machines on trains.

I don't know - some modern vending machines are capable of making a passable tea, coffee or hot chocolate. It depends on the type they buy, the quality of ingredients and a decent standard of maintenance. If they can manage it abroad, with a bit of thought we could!

 

[amcluesent]

WHy not extend the concept of M&S Simply Food and allows Fullers or Wetherspoons to insert a pub/carriage into the set? I'd be happy with a couple of pints of London Pride by PBO.

 

[Eng274]

^ If we put vending machines on trains, I guarantee you that the coffee would not be decent, and that every cup of tea would taste like coffee! I actually like the idea of vending machines on trains. I'd also like to see water fountains in every other coach, where you can get complimentary drinking water, but I think that's a bit of a fantasy!

You're not kidding!

As well as eating into sales of bottled water, where is there going to be space to insert a tank for safe drinking water? (And I hope nobody says 'next to the waste tank'..). This tank will have to be big enough to last a whole day's use remember, and space on certain trains is already at a premium.

Vending machines isn't a crazy idea, but as mentioned if they are looked after properly they'd be perfectly adequate on services with no on-board shop.

The big issue with me would be whether the TOC would sub-con the maintenance/operation of the machines, or if they keep it in-house. Both ways have potential product quality setbacks. TOC won't fix/fill it as often as needs and quality would sufer, sub-contracted would mean cheapest granulated mud passed off as coffee for extra profit margin by the subcontractor.

I'd like to see a proper bar on board trains, none of the rip-off £4.50 for a 187ml bottle of wine nonsense, proper wine served from proper sized bottles. And draught beer! Why is it so inconceiveable for a train to serve beer out of a barrel if ships can do it. Barrels can go to 9 gallon size so if demand isn;t there it won;t affect quality - i.e. same 18gallon barrel won't be hooked up for weeks on end.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I'll stick with the one I've already mentioned today of splitting standard class into two, one part being high density for the shorter distance journies, the other low density for longer distances. Currently it's often a compromise between providing the capacity for the short distance travellers, and comfort for the long distance travellers. Deals with the problem where many long distance services also carry a lot of short hop traffic over parts of the route, often due to being the only viable option (as local trains are either none existant or much slower). Either that or where viable alternatives are available, either have the long distance and local service operated by different TOCs or with different brands, and then have brand or TOC specific pricing to discourage local use of the long distance services.

At the same time I'd take a good look at what passengers demand in the way of comfort and services for different journey times (what journey time do they expect a toilet, what time are they prepared to put up with high density seating, 3+2 seating, lack of internal doors (seperating the seating area and the vestibules, common although neither exclusive to or inevitable with 1/3 2/3 external doors) etc etc. Design trains or refurbishments with that in mind.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Indeed, I realise they are franchised operators. By using the M&S brand and range I am sure SSP gain many more sales than they would have done by branding as "Rail Stop" or something like that.

Equally, it could be an idea to brand an onboard buffet (I am thinking Virgin's 'shop' concept would be most suited to this) as a retailer with their product range, it's a risk but people may think "Oh I'll just to pop to M&S in coach C or wherever". It's a concept present on ferries.

Another option would be a cafe (some retailer like EAT or Costa Coffee). These are fairly high-priced offerings but probably not too far ahead of current prices for onboard catering!



I wouldn't include that type of range!!

and it works, if a little expensively!

My improvements also centre round catering and agree with earlier post on having an additional trollie in 1 perminant area if no buffet is present.

In addition, a point was also made about redundant station buildings. I'd put them back into use as kitchens where the longterm unemployed and people with additional needs/longterm benifit claimants could be offered good paid work preparing 3 hot meals a day from a small but varied menue which could be ordered by passengers via the tm, stuard or onboard wifi and brought onboard and servd in recyclable containers. Ideal -for punters using xc and similar style opperations. This would help the passenger, the stations and the local economy.

Cleaner trains would be guaranteed by employing more onboard cleaners again longterm jobless and id set up a department within dft to set and maintain high industry standards as currently every toc is different.

One uk wide telephone, internet and mobile site, all uk based for train info/bookings offering better service, acurate info and allowing tocs to concentrate on running trains. There would stil be toc specific offers etc available using voucher codes etc.

This may all take a while but worth it. I'd also do the tipup seats thing in vestibules and ensure the environment incl smell, sound and temperature was reasonable.

In short term, compulsarry wifi, better overnight cleaning and more bins plus a re training programme for all staff on train and on station for better service.
Clearer rules for advance tikets, and rollout of a uk wide station cis including screans and ditra announcements all controlled from 1 place.

So in short not much.

 

[SS4]

^ If we put vending machines on trains, I guarantee you that the coffee would not be decent, and that every cup of tea would taste like coffee! I actually like the idea of vending machines on trains. I'd also like to see water fountains in every other coach, where you can get complimentary drinking water, but I think that's a bit of a fantasy!

I concur, I've never had good tea from a vending machine! Urns are acceptable and kettle is best. However, due to demand, I can understand urns being used for hot water (although VT first could well use a kettle, it certainly taste more like kettle tea). I would also like to see more hot food, obviously not Sunday roasts but would a jacket potato or some chips be a problem, especially in first where it's often a better class (for want of a better word) of passenger since cleaning would be an issue.

Away from the food table removing a few seats to increase legroom would be a nice idea, especially for lanky gits such as myself. Alternatively, bring in tall seats which have legroom to allow the lanky among us to not knee ourselves in the chin.

Air-Con. Don't know how widespread it is at the moment but just because it's 5 degrees outside that doesn't make it 5 degrees inside. Body heat will warm up a coach soon enough

 

[Blindtraveler]

Indeed, I realise they are franchised operators. By using the M&S brand and range I am sure SSP gain many more sales than they would have done by branding as "Rail Stop" or something like that.

Equally, it could be an idea to brand an onboard buffet (I am thinking Virgin's 'shop' concept would be most suited to this) as a retailer with their product range, it's a risk but people may think "Oh I'll just to pop to M&S in coach C or wherever". It's a concept present on ferries.

Another option would be a cafe (some retailer like EAT or Costa Coffee). These are fairly high-priced offerings but probably not too far ahead of current prices for onboard catering!



I wouldn't include that type of range!!

and it works, if a little expensively!

My improvements also centre round catering and agree with earlier post on having an additional trollie in 1 perminant area if no buffet is present.

In addition, a point was also made about redundant station buildings. I'd put them back into use as kitchens where the longterm unemployed and people with additional needs/longterm benifit claimants could be offered good paid work preparing 3 hot meals a day from a small but varied menue which could be ordered by passengers via the tm, stuard or onboard wifi and brought onboard and servd in recyclable containers. Ideal -for punters using xc and similar style opperations. This would help the passenger, the stations and the local economy.

Cleaner trains would be guaranteed by employing more onboard cleaners again longterm jobless and id set up a department within dft to set and maintain high industry standards as currently every toc is different.

One uk wide telephone, internet and mobile site, all uk based for train info/bookings offering better service, acurate info and allowing tocs to concentrate on running trains. There would stil be toc specific offers etc available using voucher codes etc.

This may all take a while but worth it. I'd also do the tipup seats thing in vestibules and ensure the environment incl smell, sound and temperature was reasonable.

In short term, compulsarry wifi, better overnight cleaning and more bins plus a re training programme for all staff on train and on station for better service.
Clearer rules for advance tikets, and rollout of a uk wide station cis including screans and ditra announcements all controlled from 1 place.

So in short not much.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
appologies, dubble post, if a mod's around please remove duplicate!

 

[Essexman]

Instead of one quiet coach have one 'noisy coach for people who insist on playing music that is supposed to be personal but whole coach can here, and keep the rest of the train quiet.

 

[WestCoast]

Instead of one quiet coach have one 'noisy coach for people who insist on playing music that is supposed to be personal but whole coach can here, and keep the rest of the train quiet.

Virgin have tried 'family coaches' in the the past on summer services, not the same but I think the idea was to put all the noisy kids together!

 

[Blindtraveler]

in a world where parents often dont seam to be able to controll there kids i'm a supporter of this!

 

[SS4]

in a world where parents often dont seam to be able to controll there kids i'm a supporter of this!

Seconded, don't see it happening though. Noisy kids has got to be high on the list of reasons why people buy weekend upgrades to first! Albeit only at the weekend.

 

[Eng274]

Virgin have tried 'family coaches' in the the past on summer services, not the same but I think the idea was to put all the noisy kids together!

"Welcome aboard the Virgin West Coast Pendolino. Coach A is the quiet coach, the shop is in coach F, the kids playpen is coach E. No running, hitting or wet willies please."

 

[WestCoast]

"Welcome aboard the Virgin West Coast Pendolino. Coach A is the quiet coach, the shop is in coach F, the kids playpen is coach E. No running, hitting or wet willies please."

I believe it was actually Coach C - next to the shop and the "train managers" office.:-x

 

[Blindtraveler]

and i'm always in the leed!

On the subject of noise i'm sick of being victimised for just having a personal cd player. I hate peoples who's mp3s can be heard at the other end of a voyager carrege, with the underfloor engines at ful revs as much as anyone but despite my blind mans white stick, everyone from the old lady 2 rows away to the tm/guard tells me off for wanting to listen QUIETLY to an audio book!

Seconded, don't see it happening though. Noisy kids has got to be high on the list of reasons why people buy weekend upgrades to first! Albeit only at the weekend.

 

[Eng274]

I believe it was actually Coach C - next to the shop and the "train managers" office.:-x

I contemplated putting it in coach K instead, but then there'd be an issue with it being an end coach; the darling little cherubs might break into the cab, or worst still, coach J!

 

[Geezertronic]

Seconded, don't see it happening though. Noisy kids has got to be high on the list of reasons why people buy weekend upgrades to first! Albeit only at the weekend.

I always take the wife and kids VT First when I go down to London with them, mind you our kids are well behaved and they like the trolley service

 

[Dennis]

And draught beer! Why is it so inconceiveable for a train to serve beer out of a barrel if ships can do it. Barrels can go to 9 gallon size so if demand isn;t there it won;t affect quality - i.e. same 18gallon barrel won't be hooked up for weeks on end.

When HST's were first introduced they did sell keg beer from a tap; can't remember which brands, but probably something dreadful like Watneys Red Barrel and Harp.

 

[yorksrob]

My local FGW 158s have a few of these. It is surprising how well used they are, I think a lot of people think it is too much trouble (to them and others) to go down the train to find a seat, especially if they are hauling a bag/case. It is easier to flip the seat down and stay where they are ! I've done it myself................

Yes, we’ve still got them on our 158’s up here and they’re handy if you’re only going a couple of stops.

When HST's were first introduced they did sell keg beer from a tap; can't remember which brands, but probably something dreadful like Watneys Red Barrel and Harp.

One for Retro Railtours cask ale buffet car and trolley perhaps !