Long corridor trains - advantages??

[Howardh]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

Personally I hate them, for a couple of reasons.
1 - if there's someone being obnoxious in your carriage you can't alight at the next station (pretend to get off) and move to another carriage to get away
2 - on a "normal" train if the heating's wonky then you can find a more suitable carriage; here it's one atmosphere fits all
3 - on a bendy bus I have suffered from motion sickness and I wonder if any pax have complained of this on the bendy trains?
So that's my input - so I'm wondering what the advantages are over carriaged stock? I suppose one might be that it could carry more standing pax at rush hours; but I can't think of any others apart from the small hassle of opening a carriage door with luggage?

 

[delt1c]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

Personally I hate them, for a couple of reasons.
1 - if there's someone being obnoxious in your carriage you can't alight at the next station (pretend to get off) and move to another carriage to get away
2 - on a "normal" train if the heating's wonky then you can find a more suitable carriage; here it's one atmosphere fits all
3 - on a bendy bus I have suffered from motion sickness and I wonder if any pax have complained of this on the bendy trains?
So that's my input - so I'm wondering what the advantages are over carriaged stock? I suppose one might be that it could carry more standing pax at rush hours; but I can't think of any others apart from the small hassle of opening a carriage door with luggage?

Why would you get motion sickness on a train just because it has full width corridor connections/ How would this differ from either a non gangwayed or normal gangwayed train

 

[Howardh]

Why would you get motion sickness on a train just because it has full with corridor conections

I haven't (yet) as I haven't been on those trains yet; but have on those bendy buses sat at the back. But I asked if there HAD been any complaints of this from pax?

 

[73001]

Some motion sickness is caused by the perception of things moving in a different direction to what your body is sensing. I suppose being able to see right through the train your carriage will be moving differently to the ones either side particularly if you are standing/sitting near the join. You'd never get that perception in a train with doors between them.

 

[Howardh]

Some motion sickness is caused by the perception of things moving in a different direction to what your body is sensing. I suppose being able to see right through the train your carriage will be moving differently to the ones either side particularly if you are standing/sitting near the join. You'd never get that perception in a train with doors between them.

Thanks, you put it so much better than I!

 

[Doomotron]

Walk-through gangways allow passengers to walk through the train much easier (in the past, passengers were reluctant to walk between carriages), so exiting at stations and finding seats is much simpler. The gangways also provide standing room themselves and therefore increase capacity - seeing a Class 700 eat up a crowd is a sight to behold!

 

[73001]

I think the 777s we're getting in Liverpool are to the same design. I'm quite looking forward to them but do also have reservations over the antisocial behaviour that occasionally occurs. It's going to be much easier for it to spread through a mostly empty train than now and it will be more difficult to "hide" out of sight anywhere.

 

[Howardh]

I think the 777s we're getting in Liverpool are to the same design. I'm quite looking forward to them but do also have reservations over the antisocial behaviour that occasionally occurs. It's going to be much easier for it to spread through a mostly empty train than now and it will be more difficult to "hide" out of sight anywhere.

Yes, if there's a noisy group on then everyone will be affected - even if trains had minor partitions every so often (ie for luggage) which acted as walls but allowing the corridor to be open it might help a bit. In my opinion these trains are OK for the tube where you might only be on for minutes, but for any longer distances could prove to be a problem.

 

[Mikey C]

Some motion sickness is caused by the perception of things moving in a different direction to what your body is sensing. I suppose being able to see right through the train your carriage will be moving differently to the ones either side particularly if you are standing/sitting near the join. You'd never get that perception in a train with doors between them.

I don't especially get motion sickness from it, but on the Underground S8 on the Metropolitan Line stock in the tunnel north of Baker Street it's really noticeable how the carriage in front bounces and jolts around, it's very noticeable!

 

[hexagon789]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

Personally I hate them, for a couple of reasons.
1 - if there's someone being obnoxious in your carriage you can't alight at the next station (pretend to get off) and move to another carriage to get away
2 - on a "normal" train if the heating's wonky then you can find a more suitable carriage; here it's one atmosphere fits all
3 - on a bendy bus I have suffered from motion sickness and I wonder if any pax have complained of this on the bendy trains?
So that's my input - so I'm wondering what the advantages are over carriaged stock? I suppose one might be that it could carry more standing pax at rush hours; but I can't think of any others apart from the small hassle of opening a carriage door with luggage?

Greater capacity and heightened sense of security are often given as advantages of wide-gangways. I think the ideal is that nothing can be hidden from view of staff and so there us reduced risk of abti-social behaviour - whether that works in practice though.

Personally on suburban trains I like it, gives a much more spacious feel to the train.

 

[bastien]

Motion sickness? On the contrary, I find it fascinating to see the curves and undulations the train is going through.

 

[boabt]

1 - if there's someone being obnoxious in your carriage you can't alight at the next station (pretend to get off) and move to another carriage to get away

Is this a thing?!

 

[hexagon789]

Motion sickness? On the contrary, I find it fascinating to see the curves and undulations the train is going through.

I find there's something kind of soothing about it!

Is this a thing?!

I don't know why one would go to such trouble. If there's an annoying person why should you get out of their way?

I just ignore them.

 

[TheDavibob]

Greater capacity and heightened sense of security are often given as advantages of wide-gangways. I think the ideal is that nothing can be hidden from view of staff and so there us reduced risk of abti-social behaviour - whether that works in practice though.

Yep, there's also the reduction of the chance of ending up alone on a carriage with a nutter, as you can access the whole train - mostly a benefit of S-stock than mainline trains, when moving between carriages isn't that hard anyway. I've had personal reports of people feeling far more secure on walkthrough trains.

 

[hexagon789]

Yep, there's also the reduction of the chance of ending up alone on a carriage with a nutter, as you can access the whole train - mostly a benefit of S-stock than mainline trains, when moving between carriages isn't that hard anyway. I've had personal reports of people feeling far more secure on walkthrough trains.

They also just feel more pleasant, the open gangways really do make the train feel much nicer. Particularly for London Underground trains, they add so much to the atmosphere on board compared to older non-gangwayed designs which felt rather cramped in comparison.

 

[Roast Veg]

The class 700s, along with S stock and 378s, all threaten to give me motion sickness if I stare down the length of the train while it is in motion. My solution is to not do that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I haven't (yet) as I haven't been on those trains yet; but have on those bendy buses sat at the back. But I asked if there HAD been any complaints of this from pax?

Bendy buses move in an odd way due to the pivot. Whereas walk-through trains move like other trains, because they are identical to other trains other than having a wider gangway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this a thing?!

For more vulnerable people (such as women being sexually harrassed) it absolutely is.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think the 777s we're getting in Liverpool are to the same design. I'm quite looking forward to them but do also have reservations over the antisocial behaviour that occasionally occurs. It's going to be much easier for it to spread through a mostly empty train than now and it will be more difficult to "hide" out of sight anywhere.

OTOH, those behaving anti-socially now can't hide out of the way either.

 

[Ethano92]

Is this a thing?!

You're probably thinking of a nuisance like a loud group. It really is a thing when moving away from someone that perhaps came and sat next to you when the carriage was empty, or you generally feel a loss of safety and security around.

I'd tend to agree I still feel safer on 700s, they're so open and clinical and brightly lit which is an advantage at times.

 

[BowesRanger]

Motion sickness? On the contrary, I find it fascinating to see the curves and undulations the train is going through.

Same .. Is especially interesting on the 717s in the Northern City Line tunnels

 

[73001]

Same .. Is especially interesting on the 717s in the Northern City Line tunnels

Yes, I'm looking forward to the same through the Merseyrail tunnels. The amount of movement you can already see between carriages on the current stock is unbelievable at times. When the train is just a bendy tube (777s) the effect will be something else.

 

[edwin_m]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

They are part of the Siemens Desiro City family but I'm not aware of a class-specific name.

2 - on a "normal" train if the heating's wonky then you can find a more suitable carriage; here it's one atmosphere fits all

A rogue aircon unit won't be noticeable four or five cars away even if the gangways are open.

One of the most important issues is probably emergency evacuation of wheelchair passengers. If a train is stranded in a tunnel the normal route of evacuation would be for the driver to open the nearest door and lead everyone out by that route, but this is no good for wheelchair users if they can't get through the train. With wide aisles and gangways I believe the wheelchair passenger would be able to make their way from the "accessible" coach at the centre right to the front without significantly blocking the flow of other passengers.

I've noticed also that the 700 has a closeable door across the gangway every few coaches but it never actually closes in normal service. I suspect this is intended to contain a fire and create a safe space in the rest of the train.

 

[Bald Rick]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

Personally I hate them, for a couple of reasons.
1 - if there's someone being obnoxious in your carriage you can't alight at the next station (pretend to get off) and move to another carriage to get away
2 - on a "normal" train if the heating's wonky then you can find a more suitable carriage; here it's one atmosphere fits all
3 - on a bendy bus I have suffered from motion sickness and I wonder if any pax have complained of this on the bendy trains?
So that's my input - so I'm wondering what the advantages are over carriaged stock? I suppose one might be that it could carry more standing pax at rush hours; but I can't think of any others apart from the small hassle of opening a carriage door with luggage?

We’ve had walk through units since the 378s were introduced nearly 10 years ago. As a regular user of them, and daily user of 700s since their introduction I can answer as follows:

1) the open layout of the trains means it is less likely to have an obnoxious person causing trouble, as they are more likely to behave given the open layout. Anecdotally, there has been a reduction of anti social behaviour on these trains, although that could be due to other factors (CCTV etc). Related to this, you don’t hear noise / commotion from any more than about 20 metres away anyway. Even then, if there’s someone obnoxious in your carriage you can move to another carriage more easily, without having to wait for a station stop. And even if you pretended to get off and get on a carriage or two down, it’s unlikely that an obnoxious person would actually be able to tell.

2) the heating / air conditioning is still coach specific. Last summer there were a couple of coaches with aircon not working, and these were very obvious. The adjacent coaches were fine.

3) I have suffered motion sickness on bendy buses (although only on the back half). I haven’t on open gangways trains.

Advantages:

1) more passenger capacity
2) encourages people to spread through a train, so more can get a seat
3) encourages people to spread through a train, reducing localised crowding which can cause delays at stations due to boarding times.
4) encourages people to board where they are more likely to get a seat, then walk through towards a preferred exit door at their destination, reducing their overall journey time (it is a sight to behold approaching Wimbledon on the District, or Blackfriars from the north on Thameslink.)
5) lower cost to build
6) less to clean
7) stops me having to get up to shut the gangway door when yet another person walks through without shutting it.

 

[jon0844]

Such as this that I found on my StP - Gatwick thread. (700's) -have they got a proper name?

Personally I hate them, for a couple of reasons.

You hate them? In the other thread you appear to have only just discovered what a 700 is and posted a video, so your opinion is based on this YouTube video only?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the most important issues is probably emergency evacuation of wheelchair passengers. If a train is stranded in a tunnel the normal route of evacuation would be for the driver to open the nearest door and lead everyone out by that route, but this is no good for wheelchair users if they can't get through the train. With wide aisles and gangways I believe the wheelchair passenger would be able to make their way from the "accessible" coach at the centre right to the front without significantly blocking the flow of other passengers.

Normally a "stretcher" is provided as emergency equipment for evacuation of wheelchair users. That the aisle is wide enough on Class 700s to get one through is just a happy coincidence.

 

[Howardh]

You hate them? In the other thread you appear to have only just discovered what a 700 is and posted a video, so your opinion is based on this YouTube video only?

Yes. It looks very unappealing. Might change my mind after I have been on one for an hour.

 

[gnolife]

I find there's something kind of soothing about it!



I don't know why one would go to such trouble. If there's an annoying person why should you get out of their way?

I just ignore them.

I had one incident a couple of weeks back where I was getting a lot of racist abuse hurled at me by quite a large group of p155ed up football fans. I didn't really fancy putting up with that for over two hours so took the opportunity to 'get off' at the next station to change coach. I was quite happy to see a BTP 'welcoming committee' come for them at Dundee

 

[tsr]

700s attract a different type of antisocial behaviour to previous trains. Older trains were certainly easier for people who were doing something they'd rather keep to themselves, like sleeping rough.

However, the new trains are attracting a lot of things which are done by miscreants who want to make everybody's journeys worse very quickly, not just one coach at a time. Given this is the general motive of a lot of deliberate ASB, this is hardly surprising. I won't post everything which has happened, but there have been significant levels of exploitation by beggars who find it easier to make their way through (and then run away down the train when challenged), and incidents such as people walking through the whole train discharging fire extinguishers or pulling alarms in about half the time this would have previously taken.

Additionally, erratic and aggressive passengers are a lot harder to contain in the open layout of a 700 than in a conventional train.

Normally a "stretcher" is provided as emergency equipment for evacuation of wheelchair users. That the aisle is wide enough on Class 700s to get one through is just a happy coincidence.

I'm not aware of any stretchers provided on modern trains. A-Stock Tube trains were the last place that I saw them. Even then, it was more of a robust sheet of sorts. You would usually need to arrange this with the local fire service nowadays.

Many areas now have evacuation ramps for side-to-side transfer and even (in some places) for transfer to ballast, although a wheelchair on ballast would normally be completely useless.

 

[brad465]

Sorry to revive this thread, but hopefully this is the right thread for this - today I had the "privilege" of seeing 3 naughty kids cycling down almost the full length of a 700 unit I was on (between Dartford and Gravesend they did 3 "trips"), which is of course possible on long corridor trains. There were no staff on board (until 2 SE staff boarded at Gravesend, plus the driver of course). I sent a 61016 text about it around Swanscombe, and told the 2 SE staff who got on at Gravesend about it, who said they couldn't do anything (chances are the kids were off the train by this point anyway), but they said texting was the right action. I gave the number I communicated with details of the train on their request, so if it's enough of an offence they could find CCTV footage to identify them.

I say it as a disadvantage to long corridor trains, but of course that might be combatable with more staff management on board and catching people via the CCTV use, which I accept isn't always possible