London Underground: zone 1 - zone 1 via zone 2 permitted?

[OLJR]

If I travel from Pimlico (zone 1) to Elephant & Castle (zone 1) during the afternoon peak, can I take the Victoria Line to Stockwell (zone 2), change onto the Northern Line and still be charged the zone 1 fare when I exit at Elephant & Castle?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[bb21]

Yes, since the system cannot tell which way you went.

 

[John @ home]

bb21's advice is correct if you intend to use Oyster.

If you intend to use a paper ticket, I think we need to know the ticket details before we can say with certainty whether or not it would be valid via Stockwell.

 

[Deerfold]

All Zone 1-2 underground fares are the same as Zone 1 only fares, so no problems.

 

[Tetchytyke]

All Zone 1-2 underground fares are the same as Zone 1 only fares, so no problems.

Not in the peak they're not.

Z1 only is £2.10, Z12 is £2.80 (oyster)

 

[OLJR]

bb21's advice is correct if you intend to use Oyster.

I use Oyster. Thanks, all!

 

[Deerfold]

Not in the peak they're not.

Z1 only is £2.10, Z12 is £2.80 (oyster)

Apologies - almost all fares are the same - off-peak, cash, travelcard, cap...

But not that one.

Cheers.

Should still only charge the Z1 fare, but make sure you've enough credit on the card to cover Z2 in case you're checked in Z2.

 

[bicbasher]

Not in the peak they're not.

Z1 only is £2.10, Z12 is £2.80 (oyster)

£2.10 if travelling from Zone 2 to 1 in the evening peak on TfL services.

 

[yorkie]

£2.10 if travelling from Zone 2 to 1 in the evening peak on TfL services.

And for a Railcard holder* it's cheaper to do a Z2 to Z1 journey at that time, compared to a journey wholly within Zone 1.

e.g. Mornington Crescent - London Bridge is cheaper than Euston - London Bridge

* With a Railcard discount loaded onto their Oyster card. Not possible all Railcard types e.g. Network Railcards.

 

[OLJR]

Here is a bit of a strange one...

Hoxton and Shoreditch High Street, at the eastern edge of zone 1, are not accessible from any other zone 1 stations unless you move through zone 2.

What fare would an on-peak passenger using an Oyster card be charged from, say, Monument or King's Cross-St Pancras to Shoreditch High Street?

 

[yorkie]

What fare would an on-peak passenger using an Oyster card be charged from, say, Monument or King's Cross-St Pancras to Shoreditch High Street?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/farefinder/current/default.aspx

£2.80

 

[OLJR]

£2.80

I wonder why TfL choose to have this station in zone 1.

The only explanation I can think of is that there must be high demand of high willingness to pay pax for zone 2 to Shoreditch/Hoxton and back on-peak and TfL are looking to capture the extra revenue.

Does this sound sensible?

 

[Paul Kelly]

More generally, Oyster Pay-as-you-go fares are not based simply on the zones the origin and destination stations are in, but on the zones you are presumed to have passed through - i.e. the "default route" for the relevant journey.

 

[Harlesden]

I wonder why TfL choose to have this station in zone 1.

The only explanation I can think of is that there must be high demand of high willingness to pay pax for zone 2 to Shoreditch/Hoxton and back on-peak and TfL are looking to capture the extra revenue.

Does this sound sensible?

I was told on another forum that TfL had no choice in the matter due to the station's closer proximity to the city than the station it replaced. It was either a Zone 1 station or no station at all in that location.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder why TfL choose to have this station in zone 1.

The only explanation I can think of is that there must be high demand of high willingness to pay pax for zone 2 to Shoreditch/Hoxton and back on-peak and TfL are looking to capture the extra revenue.

Does this sound sensible?

I read that the DfT simply insisted upon it being in zone 1 as part of the overall ELL funding arrangements, basically to avoid revenue loss due to people being able to avoid zone 1.

There were originally going to be certain exceptions for purely local journeys between stations on the ELL just either side of Shoreditch HS, not sure if they are still active?

 

[bicbasher]

There were originally going to be certain exceptions for purely local journeys between stations on the ELL just either side of Shoreditch HS, not sure if they are still active?

A quick look at Haggerston to Whitechapel charges at the NR Z1-2 price using Oyster.

 

[island]

I wonder why TfL choose to have this station in zone 1.

The only explanation I can think of is that there must be high demand of high willingness to pay pax for zone 2 to Shoreditch/Hoxton and back on-peak and TfL are looking to capture the extra revenue.

Does this sound sensible?

It's very near Liverpool Street and would otherwise result in revenue abstraction.

 

[swt_passenger]

A quick look at Haggerston to Whitechapel charges at the NR Z1-2 price using Oyster.

Perhaps it was between certain nearby stations and Shoreditch then. Someone might remember what the specifics were, they did get some publicity at the time...

 

[bicbasher]

Perhaps it was between certain nearby stations and Shoreditch then. Someone might remember what the specifics were, they did get some publicity at the time...

From what I recall at the time, the plan was to charge Zone 2 fares to stations either side of SHS between Dalston Junction and Wapping which were considered 'local' journeys, while Shoreditch would be charged at the Z1-2 fare.

 

[Wolfie]

I wonder why TfL choose to have this station in zone 1.

The only explanation I can think of is that there must be high demand of high willingness to pay pax for zone 2 to Shoreditch/Hoxton and back on-peak and TfL are looking to capture the extra revenue.

Does this sound sensible?

My bold

They didn't, they were told to do so by DfT supposedly because of possible revenue extraction from Liverpool St services....

 

[MikeWh]

In case people are struggling to see the problem, it's like this. Shoreditch High Street is 5 minutes walk away from Liverpool Street. Anyone using GEML services through Stratford would simply have to allight there and join everyone coming in from Essex on the Central line one stop to Mile End, then a cross platform interchange to the District line two stops to Whitechapel followed by one stop up the ELL to Shoreditch. Yes, it would take a little longer, but for a saving around £700/year I'd certainly consider it.

 

[swt_passenger]

My recollection is that it was concern about revenue abstraction on 'South Central'; indeed this is what is mentioned in an FOI request I've just found on the subject:

...TfL will need to confirm that the new Shoreditch High
Street is in Zone 1 - this reduces the revenue loss on South Central
services as a result of the new East London Line, and is the reason why I
can expect to make savings as high as £24m.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rationale_of_incorporating_shore

Doesn't detract from your similar point about Liverpool St, but it was effectively 'Southern' that made it into the official excuses...

 

[bicbasher]

Yet despite Shoreditch High Street being moved to Zone 1, I understand Southern asked for funding as they now make a loss in part due to the loss of revenue on the Sydenham metro service of which passengers transferred to the ELL.